I didn't think about it that way...guess he had to show up. But I would have told them then. Actually I would replace the money and chalk it up to being an F'ing idiot.
Stolen league money
- Thread starter easy-e
- Start date
I didn't think about it that way...guess he had to show up. But I would have told them then. Actually I would replace the money and chalk it up to being an F'ing idiot.
There should be something. I don't know that it is still the case, but for a long time in the area I live in, if you were renting, the security deposit of the dwelling needed to be held in a bank account. As a renter, you were also to be notified, in writing, as to where the money was being held. Said money could not be used for anything other than as the security deposit of the dwelling.
Seems simple enough here. If you collect money for the league, whether it is to pay for upcoming events, prize pool and payouts, or whatever miscellaneous items you could impart here, it should be required by any sanctioned league to place a sum of money (let say anything over $500 for example) into a bank account. All members participating in those events whose money is being held in said accounts must be notified of the amount, and where it is being held. It should also be required of the league operator to notify the players of changes in value (whether gain/loss, increase/decrease, etc.) along with a justification for the change in value. All notifications should be made in writing. Plain and simple.
This way, when something like this comes up, it's on the league operator. At this point, I'd like to revert to one of my previous posts:
My mother in law lived in an Apt building with an HOA. The president of the board and property manager made off with $1 mil. These were the people that were trusted to manage the account. Interesting what money causes people to do...especially with gambling debts or a deadbeat personality.
BCAPL has a League Operator's Manual
They make several recommendations; however, enforcement is another thing.
Here the latest from the 2017 / 2018 manual:
League Funds
League funds accumulated in larger leagues can become quite sizeable. The BCAPL highly recommends that all leagues adopt the policy of opening a checking account that requires two signatures on each check. It is a simple matter for the President and Secretary to jointly establish an account with a local bank, and this will serve to prevent any misuse of funds.
Our local league has two operators of which I am one of them.
Our financial statements are really simple as we are a true 100% payout league.
The two operator's even pay their own weekly dues and the pool room is happy to have the business so there are no green fees.
Basically, the recommend doing as I suggested above. It's a good idea.
Happened to us about 15 years ago. Two guys broke into the LO’s house and tied his 70+ year old mom up with duct tape.
Even with the guys mom getting tied up many thought the LO was in on it.
I wanted to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, I couldn’t imagine anyone would put their mom through that, but I was never sure. I think he owed money for dope and someone collected the debt.
The money, over 15,000, was going to be paid back.
I must have moved or something, I never got my check.
Even with the guys mom getting tied up many thought the LO was in on it.
I wanted to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, I couldn’t imagine anyone would put their mom through that, but I was never sure. I think he owed money for dope and someone collected the debt.
The money, over 15,000, was going to be paid back.
I must have moved or something, I never got my check.
Of course this is in the manual as well:
Your players want and deserve a financial accounting of all transactions associated with league operations that is straight-forward and easy to understand. If problems occur, we may require the prize fund be deposited with the BCA Pool League, to be released just prior to final payouts.
Apparently, this issue happen a week before payout...
The league operator would have had to cash a league check and take the cash home but it could still happen...
Years ago...2006/2007 the manual recommended that anyone handling the league fund be bonded... Again, it was only a recommendation not an enforced requirements.
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I wouldn't mind seeing people bonded. That would make sense too. However, in regards to cashing a check and taking it home, I don't know that's how it worked. I say this due to the verbiage used in what you quoted.
If is an awfully big word. Perhaps there weren't any problems? And, therefore, the need to deposit any amount of money with the BCA wasn't necessary?
Nothing in particular...the thread just stirred old pain and memories. Wouldn't want someone to be fooled twice if i could post notice on a thief. Details at
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=449368
The trouble in these cases is that even if a player wins in court, he gets no money.
https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-d...e-pool-dispute-plays-out-in-solano-courtroom/
https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-d...e-pool-dispute-plays-out-in-solano-courtroom/
I’m curious as to why PayPal has not been mentioned as a method of managing league fees.
I run a confidence pool during football season and some Super Bowl stuff. Mostly bragging rights stuff; I run around $10K through my accounting system during the season.
I’ve gotten most of the players to go to PayPal with the “Send money to family and friends” option. No fees are taken out.
Money comes to me instantly and money goes out instantly. All the money is either in my bank account or my PayPal account. Those without an account have to wait for me to remember how to write a check, which can take a week or so. I do have some cash activity, but I try and keep it to a minimum.
I run a confidence pool during football season and some Super Bowl stuff. Mostly bragging rights stuff; I run around $10K through my accounting system during the season.
I’ve gotten most of the players to go to PayPal with the “Send money to family and friends” option. No fees are taken out.
Money comes to me instantly and money goes out instantly. All the money is either in my bank account or my PayPal account. Those without an account have to wait for me to remember how to write a check, which can take a week or so. I do have some cash activity, but I try and keep it to a minimum.
Something small enough, and poorly secured enough, that a thief can walk off with the whole thing isn't a safe, it is a danger.
I guarantee you that if the choice was a $50 gift card and getting completely stiffed . . .
Luckily there is no one like that in the pool world.
Some random thoughts:
The LO is responsible for paying this back, legally and morally.
Pretty much zero chance he pays everybody back. Getting paid would require that he feels the moral responsibility to pay it back, is actually willing to take this amount of loss, and that he has the means to be able to pay it back. There is only a small chance for any one of those things, and almost no chance for all of them.
Most homeowner's or renter's policies, assuming he has one, have exclusions for amounts of cash they cover, have exclusions for covering business related things (even if the business is conducted from the home), and have exclusions for covering other people's property (and this cash belongs to other people, not to him). I would insist that he provides proof of having filed an insurance claim against whatever insurance he has just to be safe, but I think the realistic chances that it covers anything are almost non-existent.
Pretty much no chance that the national league organization pays it. It isn't their responsibility, legally or morally. And it is too much money to do it out of the goodness of their heart. And even if it wasn't, they would be afraid it would incentivize future LO's to "lose" or have their league money "stolen" knowing that the national organization would just take care of it. Also, if they covered this type situation for one guy, but not for the next one, then it looks like they are playing favorites, etc, so any way you cut it I don't see the national organization doing anything.
If you go to him and ask him for your cut, even if he has the ability to pay it, you are likely to be met with "it isn't fair for me to pay you when I can't pay everybody else". Still worth asking though if the thought of getting paid when others aren't going to be paid doesn't bother you. If you are going to do this then do it immediately. The chances for the first guy or two getting paid are infinitely better than for the 15th guy that asks.
If you think you would take him to small claims court over this (there is usually about a $150 fee to file this type suit and you both represent yourselves in court--sounds like you would have a strong case assuming you take proof of your league participation/payments and proof of whatever prize you won), then you want to do it sooner rather than later. The first guy or two with judgments are a lot more likely to get paid than anybody down the line because even if he is willing to pay the first or second person that took him to court (probably only the first guy at best), at a certain point he is going to say screw this and stop paying, judgments or not. If he was willing and able to pay $19,000 then he would have done it to begin and the same unwillingness or inability to pay then is going to make him stop paying judgments at some point too.
The LO is responsible for paying this back, legally and morally.
Pretty much zero chance he pays everybody back. Getting paid would require that he feels the moral responsibility to pay it back, is actually willing to take this amount of loss, and that he has the means to be able to pay it back. There is only a small chance for any one of those things, and almost no chance for all of them.
Most homeowner's or renter's policies, assuming he has one, have exclusions for amounts of cash they cover, have exclusions for covering business related things (even if the business is conducted from the home), and have exclusions for covering other people's property (and this cash belongs to other people, not to him). I would insist that he provides proof of having filed an insurance claim against whatever insurance he has just to be safe, but I think the realistic chances that it covers anything are almost non-existent.
Pretty much no chance that the national league organization pays it. It isn't their responsibility, legally or morally. And it is too much money to do it out of the goodness of their heart. And even if it wasn't, they would be afraid it would incentivize future LO's to "lose" or have their league money "stolen" knowing that the national organization would just take care of it. Also, if they covered this type situation for one guy, but not for the next one, then it looks like they are playing favorites, etc, so any way you cut it I don't see the national organization doing anything.
If you go to him and ask him for your cut, even if he has the ability to pay it, you are likely to be met with "it isn't fair for me to pay you when I can't pay everybody else". Still worth asking though if the thought of getting paid when others aren't going to be paid doesn't bother you. If you are going to do this then do it immediately. The chances for the first guy or two getting paid are infinitely better than for the 15th guy that asks.
If you think you would take him to small claims court over this (there is usually about a $150 fee to file this type suit and you both represent yourselves in court--sounds like you would have a strong case assuming you take proof of your league participation/payments and proof of whatever prize you won), then you want to do it sooner rather than later. The first guy or two with judgments are a lot more likely to get paid than anybody down the line because even if he is willing to pay the first or second person that took him to court (probably only the first guy at best), at a certain point he is going to say screw this and stop paying, judgments or not. If he was willing and able to pay $19,000 then he would have done it to begin and the same unwillingness or inability to pay then is going to make him stop paying judgments at some point too.
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Still worth suing him though. As long as you get a judgement, you can have his wages garnished. Also, instead of having a fee for each person via small claims, go for a class action suit. That will keep the fees to a minimum.
Just my opinion of course: LO's should have to prove they have the money to cover the loss if something like this occurs. It should be part of the requirements to be a LO. I am surprised that the leagues don't already have something like this in place to PROTECT THEIR CUSTOMERS. At the end of the day it only hurts their business when people don't get paid and I am sure many, many situations have went down...
I do feel bad for the OP and all involved. I think when dealing in large amounts of cash it should never leave your possession or sight. Having a license to carry a firearm is also probably a great idea as well. A safe is the only place that seems reasonable before it goes to the bank.
Trent from Toledo
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lol.... We had this same story in houston around 2009 in a league I played. The guy made a fake police report to show us, BUT others that had friends in the city, sherriffs, etc offices came to find out nothing was ever reported and it was totally fake news
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first find out the date of the so called robbery and the details. like was his door kicked in. then compare that to when he filed the police reprt. if there was a time lag then he is the most likely culprit. anyone would call the police immediately upon the theft.
the legally of it he is responsible especially being negligent. his insurance would only cover a modest amount of cash.
since you all as a group were part of the crime you have the right to bother the police for the report and full details.
i bet you are going to find out what you most fear. either him or someone dear to him and he wants to keep that part quiet. and if you expect to get your money you wont let that happen as the longer you wait the less chance of him making it right.
the legally of it he is responsible especially being negligent. his insurance would only cover a modest amount of cash.
since you all as a group were part of the crime you have the right to bother the police for the report and full details.
i bet you are going to find out what you most fear. either him or someone dear to him and he wants to keep that part quiet. and if you expect to get your money you wont let that happen as the longer you wait the less chance of him making it right.