What's wrong with my table?

bad_hit · May 16, 2016

It's an Olhausen Americana, 7 ft. I had the rail rubber replaced with K55, the pockets tighter down to 4 1/4, and Simonis 860 HR out on it. Looks beautiful, plays slow as hell.

It's in a garage in Portland, OR. Weather is between 60-80 F these days and humidity doesn't seem to matter in that it plays slow all the time. It was installed 1 year ago and has had probably 1000 hours play on it.

Any idea what the deal is?

Donny Wessels · May 16, 2016

why did you change the cushions? The rail profile was designed for accufast cushions.

bad_hit · May 16, 2016

Because that's what was suggested by the guy who did it. It's more the play area than the cushions though, if I roll a ball into another ball the second ball doesn't really move. Is there something I need to do to the cloth?

PoolTable911 · May 16, 2016

bad_hit said:
Because that's what was suggested by the guy who did it. It's more the play area than the cushions though, if I roll a ball into another ball the second ball doesn't really move. Is there something I need to do to the cloth?

You need k66 at a minimum. Olhausen rails are too thin for k55 and the bevel for both are different. Accu-fast is really the cushion you should have used.

Donny Wessels · May 16, 2016

bad_hit said:
Because that's what was suggested by the guy who did it. It's more the play area than the cushions though, if I roll a ball into another ball the second ball doesn't really move. Is there something I need to do to the cloth?

What kind of cloth did you use? Is the cloth pulled tight, does it wrinkle when you push it?

bad_hit · May 17, 2016

Cloth is Simonis 860 HR. It doesn't wrinkle when pushed in but I wonder if it's tight enough. It feels rough running my hand over it, not like other tables with Simonis 860 HR on them. Pic attached if that helps...

Kimmo H. · May 17, 2016

What kind of balls do you use? The picture is pretty blurry so its hard to say for sure (aramith premier?). If the balls are a quality set they should be cleaned every now and then. Dirt on balls affect speed quite drastically by my experience. I gently vacuum the cloth about twice a month and clean it occasionally with a damp (not wet!) cotton towel to get the most of the chalk out.

I have 860HR on my Diamond aswell and the surface does indeed feel rough on touch. It is how it should feel.
Many places with tables around here have cloth so old on their tables that there is absolutely no texture to it left, its all worn away due excessive use.
How thick is the slate on said table? The thinner the slate, the slower the table tends to play. And what tables are you used to when you compare the speed of wich your table plays? And do you feel it is too slow on ball contact or ball rolling too (if you shoot a lag, do you come up short often)?

Sorry for the list of questions, Im just trying to help you out

realkingcobra · May 18, 2016

bad_hit said:
Cloth is Simonis 860 HR. It doesn't wrinkle when pushed in but I wonder if it's tight enough. It feels rough running my hand over it, not like other tables with Simonis 860 HR on them. Pic attached if that helps...

Wrong cushions and the cloth is on upside-down, fuzzy side is up, that's why it's so slow.

xianmacx · May 18, 2016

realkingcobra said:
Wrong cushions and the cloth is on upside-down, fuzzy side is up, that's why it's so slow.

no wonder you are so bitter Glen. lol

It must get so frustrating for you guys to try to push the mechanic/Table industry forward when there are so many people out there that just keep holding it back...

bad_hit · May 19, 2016

realkingcobra said:
Wrong cushions and the cloth is on upside-down, fuzzy side is up, that's why it's so slow.

Wow...it's upside down?? That probably makes sense, something seems very wrong with it.

Looks like I need to get the guy back out there and re-do it.

Thanks!!

realkingcobra · May 19, 2016

bad_hit said:
Wow...it's upside down?? That probably makes sense, something seems very wrong with it.

Looks like I need to get the guy back out there and re-do it.

Thanks!!

The fuzzy side of the cloth is the unfinished bottom side. The playing surface side has been shaved to a finished surface, no fuzz. When the bottom side is surface up, it'll she'd nap balls, and form little knots in the fuzzy surface, especially on the top side of the rail cloth.

bad_hit · May 19, 2016

Do you think I can just have the cloth flipped over? Or do I need to get new cloth?

realkingcobra · May 19, 2016

bad_hit said:
Do you think I can just have the cloth flipped over? Or do I need to get new cloth?

If you paid to have the work done, the replacement cost to get the job right is not on you.

bad_hit · May 19, 2016

For sure, but I'm anticipating the argument of "ok I'll just flip it over" vs me wanting new cloth. Is it good enough just to flip it you think, or should I push for new cloth either way?

I paid the guy $1000 to tear down/move/set up the table, put on the new cloth, and replace & modify the rails/pockets.

cnyncrvr · May 19, 2016

bad_hit said:
For sure, but I'm anticipating the argument of "ok I'll just flip it over" vs me wanting new cloth. Is it good enough just to flip it you think, or should I push for new cloth either way?

I paid the guy $1000 to tear down/move/set up the table, put on the new cloth, and replace & modify the rails/pockets.

I would be very leery of letting the same person come and work on my table again. I say this because if a "Mechanic" could not figure out which side of the cloth was the play side, I would be very skeptical of the rest of the work that was done, especially the rail work and pocket modification you had him do.

realkingcobra · May 19, 2016

cnyncrvr said:
I would be very leery of letting the same person come and work on my table again. I say this because if a "Mechanic" could not figure out which side of the cloth was the play side, I would be very skeptical of the rest of the work that was done, especially the rail work and pocket modification you had him do.

Two things, first....he did the work, he needs to get it right. Second, his work may be ok, but he may not work with Simons to often, so it's a lesson hell never forget.

fastone371 · May 19, 2016

cnyncrvr said:
I would be very leery of letting the same person come and work on my table again. I say this because if a "Mechanic" could not figure out which side of the cloth was the play side, I would be very skeptical of the rest of the work that was done, especially the rail work and pocket modification you had him do.

What he said^^^^^^^^

Between installing the wrong cushions and putting the cloth on upside down this guy is barely an installer much less a table mechanic. I am sure if he gaffed this stuff so bad that he has no idea about properly stretching Simonis. Time to cut your losses with this guy and hire an educated and experienced table mechanic to do the work right this time and chalk it up to a "character building exercise". Someone who gaffed my table this bad would never even be allowed the chance to make it right, if he could make it right he would have done so the first time. Someone here should be able to steer you toward a competent table mechanic, good luck.

realkingcobra · May 19, 2016

fastone371 said:
What he said^^^^^^^^

Between installing the wrong cushions and putting the cloth on upside down this guy is barely an installer much less a table mechanic. I am sure if he gaffed this stuff so bad that he has no idea about properly stretching Simonis. Time to cut your losses with this guy and hire an educated and experienced table mechanic to do the work right this time and chalk it up to a "character building exercise". Someone who gaffed my table this bad would never even be allowed the chance to make it right, if he could make it right he would have done so the first time. Someone here should be able to steer you toward a competent table mechanic, good luck.

You think Mark Gregory and I didn't make our share of mistakes starting out? Learning from your mistakes is the only way you get better

realkingcobra · May 19, 2016

bad_hit said:
For sure, but I'm anticipating the argument of "ok I'll just flip it over" vs me wanting new cloth. Is it good enough just to flip it you think, or should I push for new cloth either way?

I paid the guy $1000 to tear down/move/set up the table, put on the new cloth, and replace & modify the rails/pockets.

You hAve 2 choices, 1 being spend more money on someone new, of which you may end up with the same situation as you're in now, or 2....give this guy the chance to get his work right. Now, if he wants money to correct his mistakes, then he's a hack, tell him to f%*k off, and I want his name posted on AZB right here. If he's genuinely trying to do his best work, he'll bear the cost of his mistakes as a learning process, if he needs some advice....tell him to call me.

bad_hit · May 19, 2016

I'm gonna call him and give him a chance to make it right. If he doesn't I'll post his name here with a "definitely don't hire this guy".

The funny part is that I've let this go for a year knowing something wasn't right...because this table has made me a better player! It's so hard to play on that I get on a Diamond now and it feels really easy. I've gone from a low B player to a high B/low A in the past year. Ironic right?

Unfortunately the table was never fun to play on and I'm sick of playing on it now completely.

Thanks for all the comments, very helpful.

What's wrong with my table?

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