Kamui Chalk - MY Review

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

UGOTDA7 said:
That's a good review....I may have to bite the bullet and give it a try.

So Mr. Eskimo - would this post constitute a loss for you on your troll bet?

No I didn't see the post as a troll post. I just saw it as a naive comment and I made a rhetorical offer which I knew would not lead to anything more.

Takes more than that to troll me these days. I have been close to losing it though.

Barioni Cues · Sep 15, 2011

JB Cases said:
Well, I just gave it a work out against Masters chalk. There IS something to it regarding getting more spin. I was able to play certain shots with more spin using the Kamui chalk. In fact it reminded me of when I had my Predator P2. With that cue I could make the cue ball do crazy things but I just hated the way the shaft felt and counldn't get it out of my head. And in case you think it's all in my head I had other people out at my shop and let them try the P2 as well and they all concurred that they could get more spin with it.

So I am pretty impressed with this stuff.

Mike Massey gets pretty crazy spin for quite some time now. Way before Kamui chalk was out. So my question is, How much more grip and spin do you need than what Mike Massey has accomplished all these years? Earl Strickland has some amazing stroke shots using regular master chalk. Don't get me wrong, I am all for improvements but really, $25 for a single piece of chalk. A gross of Master or Triangle for $19.99 will last me a long time and I can put some crazy spin on the ball myself with this stuff. I have some of that Blue Diamond. Hell I thought that was expensive when I first got it back three years ago. Needless to say I am back to using Triangle or Masters. I just didn't get enough benefit for the extra inflated price.

The Chinchilla · Sep 15, 2011

If people are in fact getting more spin with this chalk, I think you'd be getting more deflection too. Physics just doesn't give you more for nothing normally. The tip sliding off to a greater extent (and perhaps quicker) with normal chalk would be the way that would work. Lateral energy transfer would increase with more grip i think. Even if you are getting more deflection, I guess that would be well worth it of course. But I'd like to hear what others had to say, not sure how the math would actually work.

In essence, if i'm right, the effects would really cancel out with normal vs kamui chalk. Yet with kamui you could get greater maximum spin, as noted, yet with greater than ever deflection too.

poolhustler · Sep 15, 2011

aaplayer said:
Did the chalk ever "make" a shot for anybody? At most it might prevent a miscue.

Goes to show you can sell ice to eskimos if it's marketed right.

I tried to sell ice to an Eskimo and he wouldn't buy. I guess is was ill informed about the ice, just as you are about the Kamui chalk.

Have you ever tried it??

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

The Chinchilla said:
Not as eloquent as possible, but I agree with your thought. I think there are a group of wise Japanese businessmen somewhere laughing at pool players who buy this stuff. It is not a total ripoff, I mean the people who made it did good, and the people who buy it think it is worth it, so it's win win. But I think their price point could be lower.

I do see both sides, but to me this modern day business model of giving 1% more and charging 100% more has to go. I refuse to do it with jeans, cars, haircuts, electronics etc, and I sure as hell aint gonna do it with chalk.

I'd say if you really want to improve your game, take the money that you save by NOT buying your first 4 or 5 pieces of this stuff and buy a nice set of new centennials to practice with, or keep saving and invest in a better playing cue or something. The hype on this stuff actually improving your game though is just that imo.

Wait a second.

The very last thing between you and the cue ball is the chalk. Why do you think a different cue is more important than chalk? Or the balls, they don't do anything to improve your game, they sit there waiting to be smacked. In fact I could make the argument that Aramith balls don't really perform so much better than good Chinese balls which come in at 20% of the price.

Anyway my testimony is certainly not hype.

Here is the copy from Kamui's site.

• Not abrasive to your tip
• Coats evenly
• Decreases miscuing
• Stays on your tip longer
• Increases friction on the cue ball

KAMUI Chalk consists of much finer particles than standard chalk designed to maximize friction and offer a larger sweet spot to generate more spin to the cue ball. Reducing slippage decreases deflection, giving the player a more accurate aim when english is applied.

My comments are that it's clearly finer and does not feel abrasive. It does coat evenly. It does stay on the tip WAY longer. It appears to increase friction on the cueball.

If by larger sweet spot they mean that it reduces miscues in the 1-2.5 tip offset range then yes I agree. If they mean increases the maximum offset to more than 2.5tips off center then no way.

On the surface I can agree with the deflection reduction comment. I made some shots today that seem to verify this. However I think it needs to be verified officially in some other way. More accuracy due to less deflection is generally considered a good thing. I did not do any testing specifically to test deflection. I will do that tomorrow and see if there really is a difference. I wish I had the overhead camera set up because I would film the testing. I might do it with the camera on the tripod.

All I can say is give it a shot and then report back. One can argue pros/cons but it's better if both sides have experience with the product.

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

Barioni Cues said:
Mike Massey gets pretty crazy spin for quite some time now. Way before Kamui chalk was out. So my question is, How much more grip and spin do you need than what Mike Massey has accomplished all these years? Earl Strickland has some amazing stroke shots using regular master chalk. Don't get me wrong, I am all for improvements but really, $25 for a single piece of chalk. A gross of Master or Triangle for $19.99 will last me a long time and I can put some crazy spin on the ball myself with this stuff. I have some of that Blue Diamond. Hell I thought that was expensive when I first got it back three years ago. Needless to say I am back to using Triangle or Masters. I just didn't get enough benefit for the extra inflated price.

The question I would have is if the chalk really does grip more then how much MORE spin could Mike Massey or Earl generate? After all a rising tide lifts all boats.

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

The Chinchilla said:
If people are in fact getting more spin with this chalk, I think you'd be getting more deflection too. Physics just doesn't give you more for nothing normally. The tip sliding off to a greater extent (and perhaps quicker) with normal chalk would be the way that would work. Lateral energy transfer would increase with more grip i think. Even if you are getting more deflection, I guess that would be well worth it of course. But I'd like to hear what others had to say, not sure how the math would actually work.

In essence, if i'm right, the effects would really cancel out with normal vs kamui chalk. Yet with kamui you could get greater maximum spin, as noted, yet with greater than ever deflection too.

Actually it's the opposite. Less deflection equals more spin. Well not more spin but just less energy loss so that you have more spin at impact.

Predator claims that using their shafts allows more spin to be generated. All I know is that with my P2 I could make some great spin shots, really bending draw shots, etc.. Shots that I struggle with using other cues. Today when using the Kamui chalk I was making similar shots that reminded me very much of when I was using the Predator.

Barioni Cues · Sep 15, 2011

The Chinchilla said:
If people are in fact getting more spin with this chalk, I think you'd be getting more deflection too. Physics just doesn't give you more for nothing normally. The tip sliding off to a greater extent (and perhaps quicker) with normal chalk would be the way that would work. Lateral energy transfer would increase with more grip i think. Even if you are getting more deflection, I guess that would be well worth it of course. But I'd like to hear what others had to say, not sure how the math would actually work.

In essence, if i'm right, the effects would really cancel out with normal vs kamui chalk. Yet with kamui you could get greater maximum spin, as noted, yet with greater than ever deflection too.

Actually the more spin you can put on the cue ball the less cue ball deflection you will have. This is a subject I have studied with various people with a lot of testing equipment. Now don't confuse what I am trying to say. Obviously if the cue ball has a ton of spin the cue ball grips the cloth and swerves and all that good stuff. But what I am talking about is when the cue ball deflects of the shaft it is harder to apply more spin. If the cue ball tracks in a straight line off the cue, the cue ball excepts more spin. The energy is being applied to spin and not deflecting the cue ball off line.

Barioni Cues · Sep 15, 2011

JB Cases said:
The question I would have is if the chalk really does grip more then how much MORE spin could Mike Massey or Earl generate? After all a rising tide lifts all boats.

John,
I agree with what you are saying. Yes if it was gripping more they could get more spin. But do you think that is possible. You think there is a way Mike Massey could get more spin than he already has. I guess what I am trying to say is If you scuff your tip, put a nice even coat of Master or Triangle chalk and your tips is of a high quality and shaped for the purpose of applying spin, then I am not convinced that you will get a better grip with Kamui Chalk. I can believe that you may get equal spin with less effort and maintenance with the Kamui chalk but for the price difference I am not willing to use it. I am confident enough to bet some that the Kamui chalk will not allow me to get more spin than what I can generate now. But then again I do apply special oil to my tip and as dust sticks to oil, so does chalk. I am also willing to bet that you have plenty of this oil laying around your shop. By the way, are you back to taking orders yet on your cases? They sure are pretty. I would like to get one.

LC3 · Sep 15, 2011

If you're confident enough with it to chalk only once a rack, and if each application sticks to the tip better, that narrows the price gap. The Kamui chalk would still be more expensive, but it wouldn't be a matter of $25 vs. 25¢.

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

Barioni Cues said:
John,
I agree with what you are saying. Yes if it was gripping more they could get more spin. But do you think that is possible. You think there is a way Mike Massey could get more spin than he already has. I guess what I am trying to say is If you scuff your tip, put a nice even coat of Master or Triangle chalk and your tips is of a high quality and shaped for the purpose of applying spin, then I am not convinced that you will get a better grip with Kamui Chalk. I can believe that you may get equal spin with less effort and maintenance with the Kamui chalk but for the price difference I am not willing to use it. I am confident enough to bet some that the Kamui chalk will not allow me to get more spin than what I can generate now. But then again I do apply special oil to my tip and as dust sticks to oil, so does chalk. I am also willing to bet that you have plenty of this oil laying around your shop. By the way, are you back to taking orders yet on your cases? They sure are pretty. I would like to get one.

Yes I think it's possible. I think it's elementary physics. The longer a force is applied to a surface the more torque that can be generated. Spin is really just RPMs. So what could make a cue ball spin more? We know what makes it spin less, no chalk or bad chalk. So it's obvious that friction allows for more spin to happen. So then the question becomes one of what degree of friction tops out the maximum amount of spin?

I don't think we have the answer to that one yet. Kamui should send Mike a free cube and let Mike answer that question. Because one thing I am certain of is that if Mike finds it to be capable of allowing him to generate more spin then Mike will be busy putting that extra spin to use with more crazy shots.

I'd be willing to do a friendly bet with you on the spin generation if we can come up with a way to test it so that we both agree on the results whatever they may be.

I understand your skepticism. I bought this to test it and I have and it works. I gave it a real good work out against my known pet spin shots that I am good at to see what would happen. Well unless I suddenly went up half a ball in skill I was able to get more juice using the chalk than I am using Masters. I wll test it more tomorrow just to see if the effect is the same.

I am taking orders again. Best place to start is here www.jbcases.com/ordering.html

Celtic · Sep 15, 2011

JB Cases said:
I played the entire set without chalking and lost 7:5.

<snip>

This chalk did not leave any residue on the cloth, none on the cue ball and none on my hands. When I got home my hands were actually clean, or at least not visibly stained with chalk.

Shocking...

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

Celtic said:
Shocking...

Yes it was. And refreshing as well. Peace be with you in your quest for civility.

Patrick Johnson · Sep 15, 2011

Coupla things:

1. Even though you need to chalk less with Kamui, you still need to chalk regularly. With Masters chalking before every shot is an easy habit to build into your preshot routine. Do you remember as easily if the time between chalking is a game or more? Or does your first miscue remind you?

2. All the "feelings" about more spin are meaningless. "It seemed like it to me and the two or three people standing around" doesn't qualify as a meaningful test.

3. I don't think more spin and less deflection are related.

Interesting review.

pj
chgo

madfox · Sep 15, 2011

Nice review I agree 100 %.
There is no debate that Kamui Chalk is the best way over the other brands, second being Blue Diamond. The only debate is about the price. Of course is high but not that expensive. We are NOT USED TO PAY THAT MUCH FOR A CHALK.
If you have a Kamui or other expensive tip on your shaft I think you can afford this chalk. Long time ago nobody thought we will have a 20$ tip ...

PS :
Blue Diamond is 3 $ and I chalk every shot in a 9 ball game
Kamui is about 75 % as quantity and I use it once every rack

Does this mean that a Kamui chalk is equal with 7 Blue Diamond chalks ? 25$ against 21 $ is not that much ...

softshot · Sep 15, 2011

more sipn??? are you sure??

tell you what lets put the hype to rest..

you post a vid of you shooting a shot that you believe is only possible with the increased spin of your miracle chalk..

and I will post a vid of me shooting the same shot and chalking with a chunk of drywall..

I say magic chalk is nothing but hype and marketing

cuesblues · Sep 15, 2011

There are 5-possibilities in my opinion:

JB is working for Kamui
JB is a Kamui dealer
JB owns Kamui
Kamui chalk is the ****ing Holy Grail of chalk
Chalk is overrated

Either way I want some.
Like the 5-dollar milk shake in Pulp Fiction

That's a pretty ****ing good milkshake. I don't know if it's worth five dollars but it's pretty ****ing good.

Rocket354 · Sep 15, 2011

Patrick Johnson said:
Coupla things:

1. Even though you need to chalk less with Kamui, you still need to chalk regularly. With Masters chalking before every shot is an easy habit to build into your preshot routine. Do you remember as easily if the time between chalking is a game or more? Or does your first miscue remind you?

2. All the "feelings" about more spin are meaningless. "It seemed like it to me and the two or three people standing around" doesn't qualify as a meaningful test.

3. I don't think more spin and less deflection are related.

Interesting review.

pj
chgo

As a Kamui chalk fan, I'll answer these points:

1) this is a good point. I've been using Kamui chalk for about 1.5 months and playing maybe 15 hrs/week. I go so long without chalking that I forget to re-chalk and so actually miscue more frequently since I'm so out of the habit of chalking.

The other day I played a game of straight pool to 100. I remember chalking around 40, then I won the game (60 balls) and it took until a very high hit on the cueball right on the rail during my second game of 10ball after the straight pool game before I miscued, so whoops I had to go chalk again. So yeah, one can get out of the habit. However, I play with friends (competitive for stakes of pride, not monetary stakes) and so it's not a big deal. If I were playing for money (and I have a couple times with the chalk), I would make sure I at least touched up the tip every couple of racks or so.

2) lots of experienced players have tried the chalk and felt they got a little more action from the cue ball. I don't think this is impossible to believe since I feel I get more action from the cueball when I put any chalk on vs playing with a naked tip, and I feel like I get more action with, say, master's or blue diamond chalk than sportcraft chalk. This is just another step in the process. It's not a ton of difference, but I do think it's there. Or at the very least, maybe the correct phrasing is it's easier to get more action with my imperfect stroke. I am only a B/B- player.

3) can't comment

Rocket354 · Sep 15, 2011

LC3 said:
If you're confident enough with it to chalk only once a rack, and if each application sticks to the tip better, that narrows the price gap. The Kamui chalk would still be more expensive, but it wouldn't be a matter of $25 vs. 25¢.

This is a great point. I have two chalks: one cube of kamui I use for my playing cue and one cube of blue diamond I use for my break cue and jump cue. I therefore chalk using my BD cube once per game (ok 1.1 times per game since I do on occasion have to jump with my jump cue). All my play besides that, so 95% of my shots are with Kamui chalk. My Kamui chalk looks barely used (90%+ still there) while my BD chalk is now half used.

Conclusion: Kamui will last for a while and probably is no more expensive than BD in the long-run, perhaps even less expensive.

Mitchxout · Sep 15, 2011

Nothing can justify the cost. It's not the chalk I have a problem with, it's the marketing. We are being taken for fools.

Furthermore, I rarely if ever miscue with Master chalk. If it ever does happen, it wasn't because of the chalk anyway.

This is exactly why I could never be successful in business marketing. How do they sleep at night?

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