Do you use a strict diamond system?

Diamonds are a mans best friend.
Systems are tools of the trade.
As long as you know how to control the variables with feel.
Things change from table to table, you don't know what you don't know.

philly said:

I have to admit that I am a feel player when I am playing my best. This goes for banks and kicks also. I just feel or "know" where to hit the cue ball on the rail to achieve my desired end. Anyone else play like this or do you use a strict diamond system?

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If you find a "strict diamond system" that actually works, you'll sell a dvd or two for sure...I use diamond systems "the corner five", "plus two" and other less well known ones, and all of those systems requires allowances to be made. How could you possibly have a system that perfectly compensates for the table changing with weather conditions etc? The answer is "you can't". Not only that, but even under perfect, bone dry conditions, those systems do not work perfectly over their entire range. Sometimes you can't even cue the ball properly because it's close to the pocket/cusion/other balls etc. Anyone claiming to use a "strict diamond system" is either lying or only using it in the very limited range in which it works perfectly without adjustments.

Without a system of some kind you're guessing. I know the HAMB feel players will disagree but for most players a system/systems are a huge plus.

Bavafongoul said:

Absolutely wrong about aiming at the diamonds......you misunderstand the system if you believe that.......the diamonds are for measurement purposes....assigning & calculating formula arithmetic values which in turn translate into aim points on the rail grooves.....not the diamonds which shouldn't even be discernible to your eyes if you remain low in your shooting stance. Staying low is helpful for kicks shots, as well for banks. But you do not aim for the diamonds especially since your extend the lines beyond the actual t table & rails.....your aim point is on the rail grooves........not the actual diamonds.

Matt B.

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You must be talking about another system than the Corner 5 (so called The Diamond System)

Take a look at this diagram taken from a book by a famous Billiard Player who likely calculates 95% + of all shots he plays.

jeffj2h said:

Ignore the "spot on the wall" 3-rail system. In my opinion it's a parlor trick. To use this system you would have to identify 4 separate spots on the wall, one for shooting towards each corner pocket. I guess you could do it on your home table, but what are you going to do at a pool hall, arrive a week early and figure out 4 spots for each of 20 tables?!?

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Of course not but how bout the phantom table method. Or taking 1/2 distance from OB to opposing target pocket and using that angle for bank? I use latter most times. It's quick but still need speed and english touch.

Reference Points

philly said:

I have to admit that I am a feel player when I am playing my best. This goes for banks and kicks also. I just feel or "know" where to hit the cue ball on the rail to achieve my desired end. Anyone else play like this or do you use a strict diamond system?

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Diamonds are good for reference points but the way the table plays dictates the rest and that can change daily.

The only time I use a system strictly is the Corner 5 for 3-rail kicks originating near the corner, say from the 4 to the 6 cb numbers. The others are just guidelines. I'm using Allen Gilbert's systems to get an idea on short-angles and twice-arounds. You can never use the Plus 2 strictly, it always requires adjustments and instinct. I never use systems in pool.

Wish I did. My instincts on kicks suck.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I use the pockets as reference for two and three rail kicks...one example is standing back and holding my hands up in a goal post with each "upright" on the CB and the desired OB, and centered on the corner pocket between them. The two index fingers ("uprights") will show you where on the rails the CB will hit to strike the OB full. After a while you don't even need to hold your fingers up, you can see it...and you can extend that line through the third rail and see how to hit an OB that needs the third rail.

plus two
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See the device sold by the"Drill Instructor" for 2 rail kicks....it's the "two finger goalpost" system refined onto a small plastic sheet. I'd learn how to use it...but not in a poolroom. His name is Domenic Esposito. Mitch

jeffj2h said:

Ignore the "spot on the wall" 3-rail system. In my opinion it's a parlor trick. To use this system you would have to identify 4 separate spots on the wall, one for shooting towards each corner pocket. I guess you could do it on your home table, but what are you going to do at a pool hall, arrive a week early and figure out 4 spots for each of 20 tables?!?

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It is a kind of parlor trick but sometimes you have nothing else. I was playing Efren in the US 1Pocket Open up in Kalamazoo one year and he put me in a really awkward spot. My only out was a three rail kick, so I quickly sized up the correct spot on the wall, shot, and landed perfect. Nothing wrong with the occasional parlor trick

Lou Figueroa

From Robert Byrnes's "McGoorty The Story of a Billiard Bum"" one of the great books on billiards:

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“In Hoppe’s book on how to play billiards is a long section on the diamond system, charts showing how to count the spots on the rails and figure out where to aim by using arithmetic. Now that is a joke, because he was not a system player. I went out to the Navy Pier one morning during the 1950 tournament to practice and there was Hoppe all alone in the hall. He had the book open and was shooting shots from the diagrams... trying out the system. He looked up at me and said, “You know, Dan, it works. But you need a perfect stroke.’

Those charts were put in the book by Bryon Schoeman and a lot of them are haywire. Sometimes one of my students will show me the book and say, ‘Look at this McGoorty. Hoppe says you can hit the rail here and end up there.’

‘My boy,’ I say, ‘it can’t be done. Those charts are just pretty pictures.’

Not only did Hoppe not use the diamond system, he had nothing to do with developing it. That was done by Copulus, Layton, and Clarence Jackson.

Guys like Hoppe, Cochran, and Schaefer, they knew the table so well, all the angles, all the returns, they didn’t need to use any system. They could get four out of two by elevating the cue a little and putting a touch of masse on the ball. The system? What system? f*ck the system.’”
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Lou Figueroa