Ghostball is the only way to go

If that works for you.......do it!
Not all students are Visual learners. That's why there are many different options.
Have a great day.

randyg

I agree completely to the simplicity of seeing where the cb needs to go and sending it there. In a good conversation with Dr Cue (Tom Rossman), who is of the 100% ghostball only belief, I explained how fractional aiming makes the task easier. The ghostball position, as far as where it is against the ob, varies depending on shot angle/perspective. Even though the ghostball line always leads to a spot exactly 1.125" away from the outer surface of the ob, it only looks like 1.125" on near 90° cut shots. On every other shot this distance looks smaller, and it varies for every cut angle.

That's why I believe it is easier to look beyond the ghostball, using the ob as a backdrop to determine a defined point of reference, a fractional aim point on the surface of the ob or just outside the outer most left or right surface of the ball. Aiming toward this point is much easier than aiming for where you think the ghostball is. Tom is old school, so he stuck to his guns about always aiming exactly 1.125" from the ob on every shot, despite the fact that it never looks like 1.125". Great guy, but unwilling to consider an easier approach to aiming.

BC21 said:

I agree completely to the simplicity of seeing where the cb needs to go and sending it there. In a good conversation with Dr Cue (Tom Rossman), who is of the 100% ghostball only belief, I explained how fractional aiming makes the task easier. The ghostball position, as far as where it is against the ob, varies depending on shot angle/perspective. Even though the ghostball line always leads to a spot exactly 1.125" away from the outer surface of the ob, it only looks like 1.125" on near 90° cut shots. On every other shot this distance looks smaller, and it varies for every cut angle.

That's why I believe it is easier to look beyond the ghostball, using the ob as a backdrop to determine a defined point of reference, a fractional aim point on the surface of the ob or just outside the outer most left or right surface of the ball. Aiming toward this point is much easier than aiming for where you think the ghostball is. Tom is old school, so he stuck to his guns about always aiming exactly 1.125" from the ob on every shot, despite the fact that it never looks like 1.125". Great guy, but unwilling to consider an easier approach to aiming.

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I don't think it's easier for everybody - we each see things differently, and we can train ourselves to see different things.

For instance, I have pretty good "spacial visualization", so it was relatively easy to train myself to easily/quickly visualize the OB contact point and how far from it I need to point the CB's center for a given cut angle - which gives me a two-point aiming reference.

Visualizing fractions is harder for me - maybe because I haven't trained myself to see them.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

I don't think it's easier for everybody - we each see things differently, and we can train ourselves to see different things.

For instance, I have pretty good "spacial visualization", so it was relatively easy to train myself to easily/quickly visualize the OB contact point and how far from it I need to point the CB's center for a given cut angle - which gives me a two-point aiming reference.

Visualizing fractions is harder for me - maybe because I haven't trained myself to see them.

pj
chgo

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Fair enough. But if you have good spacial skills, you should easily be able to look at an object, like a circle, and visualize a vertical center line and divide that circle into pretty accurate quarter lines or even eighth lines.

I've found that most players believe their particular method is the best way to teach aiming, ignoring the countless hours of training and experience they've invested in order to become proficient at it themselves. For the average player looking to improve quickly, that might not be the best option.

Goat ball

Hay Patrick, visualize this ,15/30/45 pivot to center cue ball and shoot. IT GOES CENTER POCKET EVERY TIME.

BC21 said:

...if you have good spacial skills, you should easily be able to look at an object, like a circle, and visualize a vertical center line and divide that circle into pretty accurate quarter lines or even eighth lines.

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Sure - but if I can estimate either (not saying everybody can), I'd rather estimate the target line itself than estimate a fraction near it and then estimate the target line from that.

I feel lucky that I'm able to use the OB contact point itself and skip the "middle man" fractional reference - kudos to those who use fractions best.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

Sure - but if I can estimate either (not saying everybody can), I'd rather estimate the target line itself than estimate a fraction near it and then estimate the target line from that.

I feel lucky that I'm able to use the OB contact point itself and skip the "middle man" fractional reference - kudos to those who use fractions best.

pj
chgo

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It's not luck young man....it's acquired skill.

Seriously though, I understand. Traditional fractional aiming involves estimating the nearest fractional aim based on experience, then fine tuning from there, also based on experience. Stan demonstrates it on YouTube with his "5 lines" quarters system.

Anyway, experience is key, unless you have someone standing next to you on each shot telling you exactly where to aim.... "3/8 on this shot....a touch thinner than 5/8 here..." etc..... But even then, I admit, you must be capable of sending the cb to exactly where you are aiming.

Like the majority of players I interviewed prior to writing Poolology, I can't explain how I aim. Probably started off using ghostball, can't remember. Seems like I was always good at just putting the cb where it needs to be. So I figured by taking the ghostball approach a little further, by incorporating a way to know the fractional aim point beyond that ghostball, instead of relying on traditional guesswork or experience, one could quickly develop the ability to recognize shots and know exactly where the cb needs to be. And I believe this shot recognition can eventually occur with all (or most) aiming methods. So aspiring players should use whatever method or methods work quickest and easiest for their own development.

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Patrick Johnson said:

I'd rather estimate the target line itself than estimate a fraction near it and then estimate the target line from that.

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Low500 said:

I have to admit, I agree with old Patrick Johnson on this one...he's absolutely right.
Why fool around with two things when one thing can accomplish the task as well or better.?

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Funny you'd say that, considering your system uses two fraction lines, an estimated tip offset and an estimated pivot. But glad it works for you.

pj <- I know nothing!
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

Funny you'd say that, considering your system uses two fraction lines, an estimated tip offset and an estimated pivot. But glad it works for you.
pj <- I know nothing!
chgo

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Your response reveals your innocent ignorance about CTE. You’re going to become enlightened on both accounts. In other words, you are going to get schooled. But I do like your style.
You’re batting 500! You hit it out of the park concerning the double guessing with fractions but whiffed on your CTE.

Low500 said:

Your response reveals your innocent ignorance about CTE.

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By all reports it's everybody's innocent ignorance - except those who claim to get it (but can't describe it).

But that's for another thread...

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

By all reports it's everybody's innocent ignorance - except those who claim to get it (but can't describe it).

But that's for another thread...

pj
chgo

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What possibly would you need described after saying for 20 years you know everything about CTE

Ghostball is a one line visual method. It just takes quite a bit of trial and error before consistently being able to recognize the line. Many pro players say they started off using this method.

Traditional fractional aiming is a one line visual method also. And it too, as low500 and PJ pointed out, and as Stan Shuffett shows in his 5 lines YouTube video, requires trial and error, estimations based on experience. So it takes quite a bit of intermittent misses and makes before you begin to recognize the correct aim line needed to pocket the ob. Many, if not most, snooker players learned to pocket balls using fractional aiming.

For clarification purposes, the fractional system in Poolology is not the traditional 5 lines quarters system. The proper aim line is known, not guessed or estimated. There is no trial and error learning process. This helps develop quicker shot recognition because each shot has a known aim line that does not rely on experience. And though I believe it's a quicker path, the goal is the same as ghostball or traditional fractions, eventually the system is no longer needed, at least not on a conscious level (except for those less common shots that pop up from time to time). As soon as you see the cb-ob relationship, your brain automatically recognizes the aim line needed and you simply step into that line and shoot.

cookie man said:

What possibly would you need described after saying for 20 years you know everything about CTE

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I didn't say I need it. I said you can't do it.

pj
chgo

This will be most likely my one and only post in this sub forum.

The title of the thread is most certainly wrong - there are myriads of ways to aim, e.g.:

Valiant Thor said:

Hay Patrick, visualize this ,15/30/45 pivot to center cue ball and shoot. IT GOES CENTER POCKET EVERY TIME.

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:wink:

But I very much agree with this:

duckie said:

It is more the Ghostball path really. What is the path the CB needs to go in order to accomplish what I need on a shot?
.

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That's how I aim as well. I wouldn't call it ghost ball path though, just cue ball path.
I don't see the the point in using intermediate guesses/visualizations to get to the right line, which is what aiming systems do. Somehow get you to the right line.

In order for anyone to precisely see the center of the cue ball at impact (ghost ball aiming), or the overlap fraction between cue ball and object ball (fractional aiming), or.. (well, don't mention CTE), they must already be familiar with the shot picture. If the shot is unfamiliar, neither ghost ball location nor fractional overlap estimation will be accurate and the percentage of making the shot will be below the player's average. Nobody denies that, from whatever aiming system camp they come from.

But if a player is familiar with the shot picture, they might as well go straight to seeing where the cue ball needs to in the first place and skip the intermediate visualization altogether.

This, in my view, has the additional advantage of not only working for potting/banking, but also for safety play, caroms, kicks, billiards, etc. Throw (cut and spin induced), swerve, deflection, all can be factored in directly without having to modify intermediate calculations/guesses. Just aim a little thicker/thinner, instead of adding/subtracting 1/16th to/from the fraction or visualizing a ghost ball that will send the object ball to a point of the pocket instead of center pocket.

The only aiming system I'm aware of that doesn't require being familiar with the shot picture is Poolology. But in the hour or so that I experimented with, it didn't work out so well on my 7ft table.

I very confident that snooker players do not use an aiming system other than seeing the lines and verifying with their gut. At least I've never read anything about such things, and I did search.
They do talk about fractional hits quite often, but that is not to be confused with aiming for the pocket. It is always in relation to position play or breaking out clusters. Examples: potting the black into the corner is a half ball shot and will send the cue ball into the cluster of reds, or cannoning into the red closest to the cue ball with a full ball hit will split the reds nicely and leave a shot on, etc.

Out of interest, does anyone know of carom/billiards players using a "system" to get to the first ball correctly (not talking about diamond systems)? I wouldn't think so as the first ball can go anywhere as opposed to a corner or side pocket, and they use side spin almost all the time.

Use whatever way works for you to pocket balls and play position. But don't claim any system works better than others. If you do, you are most certainly wrong, just like any other religious claim. This sub-forum should be closed, lol

deraltefritz said:

The only aiming system I'm aware of that doesn't require being familiar with the shot picture is Poolology. But in the hour or so that I experimented with, it didn't work out so well on my 7ft table.

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I should add that no criticizing was intended. The math and approximations behind it appear to be correct. I just couldn't get it to work on my equipment, and have no use for aiming systems anyway, as argued in my post above.

Patrick Johnson said:

By all reports it's everybody's innocent ignorance - except those who claim to get it (but can't describe it).

But that's for another thread...

pj
chgo

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Here we go again with the same verbatim crap like a broken record starting back from over 20 years ago by the same individual

Originally Posted by HawaiianEye View Post
I agree.
If the sub-forums allowed the creators to moderate them, the trolls would be controlled.
It's the same half-dozen nitwits who continually pollute the content with their anti- attitudes.

Yo-HawaiianEye, might this be one of the primary offenders out of the half-dozen you're referring to?

It never ends, does it?

deraltefritz said:

I should add that no criticizing was intended. The math and approximations behind it appear to be correct. I just couldn't get it to work on my equipment, and have no use for aiming systems anyway, as argued in my post above.

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No criticism taken. I understand fully that fractional type aiming isn't for everyone. As an example, when I first published the the book, a good friend of mine was over at the house and asked me to show him what it was all about. I set up a dead halfball shot, showed why it was a dead halfball and how to easily recognize it.

He, like myself, had never used fractional aiming. I told him to aim through center cb to the left side of the ob, splitting his tip on what looks like the edge of the ball. He missed the shot several times! And he is a very good player! I then told him to just shoot the shot his way, and he split the pocket. I set it up again, told him to shoot it again the same way, but stopped him in his back stroke and asked him to look straight down his shaft to where his aim line was headed, all the way to where it meets the ob. He said, "It looks like it's pointed at the edge." Lol

The brain is a funny thing. He is programmed to just shoot the shot the way he sees it, based on experience, and it works. But when he had to consciously aim at a specific point he had trouble doing it.