How to install bed cloth

OTLB

Banned
What is the correct way and why? What is the difference when bed cloth is put on tighter than the next guy. Does the ball roll further, if so how much? To me actually putting the cloth on lengthways first makes complete sense, since the strongest threads from the warp run in this direction(even better when I use my tac strips because I can repull back and forth.). I would also like to say that since the only thing we are really concerned with is the grain pattern on the top of the table how you finish a pocket is relevant.. Think about a billiard table. I will leave it at that for now to get the thread going.
 
Last edited:

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
What is the correct way and why? What is the difference when bed cloth is put on tighter than the next guy. Does the ball roll further, if so how much? To me actually putting the cloth on lengthways first makes complete sense, since the strongest threads from the warp run in this direction(even better when I use my tac strips because I can repull back and forth.). I would also like to say that since the only thing we are really concerned with is the grain pattern on the top of the table how you finish a pocket is relevant.. I will leave it at that for now to get the thread going.

John, you're not going to get much response to this kind of question, as most mechanics install the cloth from end to end first, do you know why that is? I'm about the only mechanic on the market that said, "I'm not happy with this way, there has to be a better way" and spent years developing that way, my way, and anyone I've ever taken the time to teach it to, has changed the way they install the bed cloths from then on out. The end to end first stretch came from BILLIARDS tables, as they didn't have to worry about backing off on the end to end stretch to accommodate a side pocket, and since the introduction of "POOL" tables, there hasn't been a change from that system, and as far as I'm concerned, it's wrong for pocketed slate tables. And you and them tac strips:D they don't work for all tables;) but my system of installing the bed cloth does;)

Glen
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
It's the lesssssser of two evils IMO, sorry I stutter sometimes. I know my tac strips don't apply to all tables but it wouldn't surprise me if a table manufacturer came out with a modified version of my method(Brunswick). If you were to take a sharpie and trace out a square on the bed cloth before you put it on I would love to see it after. Say a square 50 x 100, have you ever done that to check and verify that in your R+D? I am not teasing, just want to know. How do you know everything is uniform?

thanks John

Been through this conversation already John, you can't stretch in 2 different directions like you're talking about. When you attach one side of the cloth, all the stretch goes in the direction of the other side, so marking out a 50x100 square won't work...because as you stretch the cloth in any direction...your 50x100 square is going to get larger...right?

Glen
 

A-1 billiards

FELT WRIGHT
Silver Member
Is this a PAY PER VIEW thread?.. cause if it is, where do I send the money? I don't want to miss any of this.... "CLASH OF THE TIGHTENS".
 
John, you're not going to get much response to this kind of question, as most mechanics install the cloth from end to end first, do you know why that is? I'm about the only mechanic on the market that said, "I'm not happy with this way, there has to be a better way" and spent years developing that way, my way, and anyone I've ever taken the time to teach it to, has changed the way they install the bed cloths from then on out. The end to end first stretch came from BILLIARDS tables, as they didn't have to worry about backing off on the end to end stretch to accommodate a side pocket, and since the introduction of "POOL" tables, there hasn't been a change from that system, and as far as I'm concerned, it's wrong for pocketed slate tables. And you and them tac strips:D they don't work for all tables;) but my system of installing the bed cloth does;)

Glen

I'm sure that I'm OK at working on tables,:wink: but when Glen comes down south in a few months or so, I'm
more than sure I'll start to glue cloth on his way. I'm more than sure I'll be starting the cloth from the side pockets first as he does his cloth installs. I'm not on anyones band wagon, I think the idea may work better.

Mark Gregory
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Yes but evenly and in a linear direction with my method( I think). What would happen to the linear lines with yours? Maybe I will order some 860 blue and see, Dartman is in the house, Whats the std cut in length you sell for 9ft. I know to me you will send 107 but what is the normal length? I think it won't matter if I put it on upside down and mark with a pencil. Lets do it RKC both of us. Take pics, post them, mark as Ron suggests and see what the stretch is after we take them off. Now this is R+D. We could both start with 110 inches in length, whats left over after its on is what was stretched. sq inches div by total gives us the winner in stretching. Well, I am going to do it by myself even if you don't want to. I like the idea of it, should tell me a few things I think. Give me a chance to check out my new drill and level my table. I think my woodstove changed it a little. Trying to load pics but not working, will try in the morning.
Keep working on it John, while you're still doing R&D I'll be working on training mechanics as to how I install the bed cloths;)
 

OTLB

Banned
Clash of the Tightens, now thats quick wit. Ok I just got back up off the floor laughing. Thats the best yet A-1. Thank you Dartman. Well I will make this even easier for you Glen but its still hard for me. You are doing cloth all the time. Have to order a roll, oh yeah using my method can squeeze out an extra bed cloth out that way (sometimes)$$$$. Doing as much as you do you must buy it by the roll. On your next bed cloth take that sharpie and draw a grid like I suggested in nice dark ink and then pop off your cloth before you put on your new bed cloth. Don't show me, post pics for everyone on how even that stretch is. Would like to see pics around the pockets Its a good exercise for everyone and then a person can see and measure what their stretch was, they can also see the pattern by which it went down. Everyone is invited into this ring game. SO mark your outline at 50 x 100, mark boxes around the pockets with right angles, lets say 2 x 12 inches at the sides on the inside of the 50 x 100, 5 x 5 in the corners, the full 5 inches every where side to side end to end and lets see where the stretch really is and then take off your cloth and it will go back and to lets say 47 x 97 for example. Then it will also show where it was distorted. Lets see what method is best shall we.

You think this thread won't grow. Tape measure and pics it will be. Really should be getting paid to straighten out all of this stuff. Bad news is I have alot more threads to post. Now everyone looking at this thread can mark their tables next time they do them and record data, data, data. Thats what is all about. Can come up with numbers. This will be known throughout the world as the OTLB grid factor Scruffy. Now this is what the forum should be talking about. Will be happy to collect all data and structure a linear regression analysis to ascertain pertinent and or relative information on this DOE.

Yes Dartman, a Legend in my own mind and a nightmare in others.

See, I told you my table was off!
 

Attachments

  • MVC-133F.JPG
    MVC-133F.JPG
    77.2 KB · Views: 921
Last edited:

Dartman

Well-known member
Silver Member
FTR - you won't gain an extra bed off the ideal 35 yard roll of 860 (78") by cutting back the length to 108" for a 9' table.
Assuming 0 flaws in the bolt:
At 108" you get 11.67 beds.
At 112" you get 11.25 beds

Linear regression at 3am? :confused:
 

A-1 billiards

FELT WRIGHT
Silver Member
John,

Nice level! Is that baby as accurate as a 12 inch starrett 98?..How much to buy one with your bulk discount...LOL.

As you know from our phone conversations, I use glue (and staples) to apply bed cloths. I've never had to re stretch one. If your looking to conserve cloth, by gluing the slate edge you get 2 extra rail cuts from the width. I use these extra cuts for recovering bar table rails etc.

The issue here is two fold. One, the attachment system. Two, the stretching pattern or system. In order to finish your side pockets (with Simonis) without having your relief cuts show you have to provide some slack in the cloth. Since the side pockets have the sharpest radius, it only logical to start you recovery process in the area where you need the most slack, IE the side pocket. JMO.

Leaving Wednesday, the tables cleared customs yesterday see you on the way back from DC.

Jay
 

OTLB

Banned
FTR - you won't gain an extra bed off the ideal 35 yard roll of 860 (78") by cutting back the length to 108" for a 9' table.
Assuming 0 flaws in the bolt:
At 108" you get 11.67 beds.
At 112" you get 11.25 beds

Linear regression at 3am? :confused:

Corrrrrrrrect, there I go again, as you should be aware more than anyone you don't usually cut all 9 ft unless your doing a pool room. Rolls are usually not exact you would agree also I would think.
 

OTLB

Banned
John,

Nice level! Is that baby as accurate as a 12 inch starrett 98?..How much to buy one with your bulk discount...LOL.

As you know from our phone conversations, I use glue (and staples) to apply bed cloths. I've never had to re stretch one. If your looking to conserve cloth, by gluing the slate edge you get 2 extra rail cuts from the width. I use these extra cuts for recovering bar table rails etc.

The issue here is two fold. One, the attachment system. Two, the stretching pattern or system. In order to finish your side pockets (with Simonis) without having your relief cuts show you have to provide some slack in the cloth. Since the side pockets have the sharpest radius, it only logical to start you recovery process in the area where you need the most slack, IE the side pocket. JMO.

Leaving Wednesday, the tables cleared customs yesterday see you on the way back from DC.

Jay

Well to satisfy the inside area of a pocket lip versus the top of the table is not a concern of mine and has never been. If you want it to look nicer you can do things to it but why cause damage to the table by adding extra staples etc To me less is more. Now this is the reason I want to see some data. Glue holds better on a uniform basis but I solved that( I think) also with MY tac system. Ok it doesn't apply to all tables, so what.


Now lets to talk about the strain on the cloth that is developed when you stretch it so much to make pockets look so nice. My bet is that it does stretch excessively as you need to water it etc and therefore causes early fatigue along the rail in particular near the side pockets. Anyone has a table like this with some play on it? roll a ball slowly down the rail and watch it dive into the side. Since the cloth is thinner in that area it will wear faster from play. So my argument if you will is that the tightest cloth is put on billiard tables right? These carom tables demand it, its OK for those tables but not pool? Why? Because about how it looks on the inside of a pocket? This is why I don't care about stretching it like that. So I think my logic and evidence which I hope to gather will prove this out. Wrong maybe but let's see, that’s all I am asking.

Why can't there be a small study of this. Am going to do my table again. Also going to get a marker that will erase so I can mark it before I take off my cloth on there now. So, what I am trying to do is verify, that’s it. What ever is the best way . Perhaps if I can find the right marker it would be best to mark out the cloth on top first as SOP ( OTLB Factor #413)> And finally, who can put on cloth the tightest. Mine doesn't come loose, yours doesn't and probably not alot of guys. So, there is a min stretch (OTLB factor). Who puts it on the tightest may just be causing more of a problem than anything else, especially when you look at the side its drawn to over time. I think I have made enough points for now don't you think.

With my system I don't even have to use my hands, to pull the cloth. Yeah, I don't like my knuckles hurting either Scruffy. This will be the topic of another thread I hope, but not yet.

Oh yeah, this level is sick, its around $300, maybe you can get one on ebay for cheap..
Better then a Starrett for obvious reasons. I have a pic of it on another Brand of table but I don’t think I will post it. The other level also has a laser, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Even my phone has a level

Just got another nice level on Ebay last night at 18” .0003.
Why, I don’t know yet.

The next two weeks I am going to Phil.

The plate that the levels are resting on are custom and are machine ground both sides to >.001
 

Attachments

  • MVC-061F.JPG
    MVC-061F.JPG
    84.1 KB · Views: 896
Last edited:

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Corrrrrrrrect, there I go again, as you should be aware more than anyone you don't usually cut all 9 ft unless your doing a pool room. Rolls are usually not exact you would agree also I would think.

Nothing new John, what you get out of a 35 yard half bolt of cloth is always determined by the size of the tables you recover:eek: I've always converted yards into inches, that way I can see the best way to get the most out of the last few cuts. But if you do 11 9fts out of that 35 yards, you're not going to have enough left over even for a 7ft;)

35yrds x 12= 1260 inches.
11tbls at 108 inches = 1188 inches, leaving 72" left over, which equals RAIL cloth waste, and busted knuckles for no gain;)

I'd rather use 66" wide roles of cloth, and have no wasted rail cloth left over:D

Glen
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Well to satisfy the inside area of a pocket lip versus the top of the table is not a concern of mine and has never been. If you want it to look nicer you can do things to it but why cause damage to the table by adding extra staples etc To me less is more. Now this is the reason I want to see some data. Glue holds better on a uniform basis but I solved that( I think) also with MY tac system. Ok it doesn't apply to all tables, so what.


Now lets to talk about the strain on the cloth that is developed when you stretch it so much to make pockets look so nice. My bet is that it does stretch excessively as you need to water it etc and therefore causes early fatigue along the rail in particular near the side pockets. Anyone has a table like this with some play on it? roll a ball slowly down the rail and watch it dive into the side. Since the cloth is thinner in that area it will wear faster from play. So my argument if you will is that the tightest cloth is put on billiard tables right? These carom tables demand it, its OK for those tables but not pool? Why? Because about how it looks on the inside of a pocket? This is why I don't care about stretching it like that. So I think my logic and evidence which I hope to gather will prove this out. Wrong maybe but let's see, that’s all I am asking.

Why can't there be a small study of this. Am going to do my table again. Also going to get a marker that will erase so I can mark it before I take off my cloth on there now. So, what I am trying to do is verify, that’s it. What ever is the best way . Perhaps if I can find the right marker it would be best to mark out the cloth on top first as SOP ( OTLB Factor #413)> And finally, who can put on cloth the tightest. Mine doesn't come loose, yours doesn't and probably not alot of guys. So, there is a min stretch (OTLB factor). Who puts it on the tightest may just be causing more of a problem than anything else, especially when you look at the side its drawn to over time. I think I have made enough points for now don't you think.

With my system I don't even have to use my hands, to pull the cloth. Yeah, I don't like my knuckles hurting either Scruffy. This will be the topic of another thread I hope, but not yet.

Oh yeah, this level is sick, its around $300, maybe you can get one on ebay for cheap..
Better then a Starrett for obvious reasons. I have a pic of it on another Brand of table but I don’t think I will post it. The other level also has a laser, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Even my phone has a level

Just got another nice level on Ebay last night at 18” .0003.
Why, I don’t know yet.

The next two weeks I am going to Phil.

The plate that the levels are resting on are custom and are machine ground both sides to >.001

Your rocket ship to the moon will look good when you get done with it John, but down here on earth...we humans have to deal with the real pool tables:D

Glen
 

OTLB

Banned
Yes thats what I was saying but how many rolls are there at a specific measurement, when you do the math you will find that you can get extra sometimes, I said sometimes.
 

OTLB

Banned
Man you have no idea about the table I am working on right now.

Are they selling proams in Philly?
 

Dartman

Well-known member
Silver Member
Corrrrrrrrect, there I go again, as you should be aware more than anyone you don't usually cut all 9 ft unless your doing a pool room. Rolls are usually not exact you would agree also I would think.
Rare that a Sim bolt comes at exactly 35yds. Typically a little more or less.
You would typically only use 78" for 8OS and 9'

Of course the smart puppy just gets precuts so you're not buying any flaws plus
you save time not having to measure, mark and rip rails.
JMO
 
Top