Who decides????

I used to read the forums on a daily basis. I have learned much from this forum. Now I am sick of all the bullying. You can't post an opinion here without an attack. This forum is for discussion and provides a place for healthy debate. It has become antagonistic and argumentative at every corner.

Now were getting world rankings!!! I personally have moved from the top ten, to number five and last night to number three. I am left wondering how? I have been laid up with a back and leg injury for two of those 3 weeks. I must have a twin running around doing tables. He better be a good mechanic because he sure must be ugly.

Who decides who is the best? Who cares? Last night in the main forum Rkc asked the question. Glenn you want to know who is going to certify you. I can answer that. The customer! The player!! If I never looked under a pool table I could tell the difference? Why because I can flat out play some pool! You don't need a height gauge and photos to prove it. Hand me a house stick and i can tell you in about five strokes wether or not it is done properly.

Glenn I am grateful for the opportunities to learn from you as well as many others. I am however tired of the constant reminder of what I do and do not have knowledge of. This forum is not a contest. There is no stupid question, only stupid answers! Yes you are a great mechanic but I think you have forgotten what it is we are trying to do. I remember alsip, so do many other mechanics. I was inspired by what I learned in Chicago. I was inspire by your ideas. My point? We all have valuable opinions and ideas. It has become nearly impossible to express the ideas on this forum without being corrected or drawn and quartered.

I speak with Mark Gregory almost every day. It is debatable who of you is the best. I actually don't care. What I care about is mutual respect. I don't remind my peers of the pecking order. I work with Pat O' several times a month. I have learned from Pat as well as his helper. On that note, I have more knowledge than Pats Helper {sorry Oscar} yet he cloths rails better than anyone I have seen. BAR NONE! Pat is very good business man and a top INSTALLER! No he does not cut off subrails and glue pop sickle sticks together but he is learning, as we all are. He does the best job he knows how.

I had the pleasure off meeting a mechanic from this forum in the last few weeks. He shall remain nameless it is not my place to drag him into this. To get to my point I will say this. He refinishes, installs and replaces SUBRAILS on high end tables. He has been replacing subrails for 26 years! I have never heard him brag or belittle anyone on this forum. I am certain after talking to to him, that he has forgotten more than I may ever know.

We are here to learn and to further our business and improve this industry. We are here to give the customer, player and consumer a better product. I work everyday to improve in everything I do.

Glenn I think that you have become a bully on this forum. I would have called you but I would not be able to get a word in. I hope this isn't my last post. If it is i will take my ball and go home..

Mr. Bond said:

sir,

i'm pretty sure that everyone reading this can indentify with the unpleasantries of online forums. but unfortunately my friend, the assholes of the world are not going away. neither here nor in the real world. one would do well to simply ignore negative interactions, just as one would when dealing with a real live human.

and keep in mind that the number one problem with communicating ones thoughts via text only (online) is the distinct lack of emotion, inflection and intention in the expression itself. words alone are open to a much broader range of interpretation than a face to face conversation, so, misunderstood "anger" and insults are far more frequent than they would be otherwise.

emotional BS has no place in an intelligent conversation. (nor on the job) so if you perceive emotional BS, be a professional and ignore it. in the long run it will be clear who the asshole is. furthermore, when and if conflicts do arise, have enough tact to "take it outside"...which means, discuss your personal issues with Joe Schmoe somewhere else, anywhere else, but NOT here or on any public forum. the internet is forever, and the harsh words you type just might come back and bite you in the arse real hard some day.

yes, people will disagree with each other. perhaps even argue. there's no way around it. but then again, if you never question what you are told, how can you be sure that it's true and/or accurate? i say converse, share and debate till the cows come how, and dont take any of it personally. its just words on a screen.

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Look I understand what your saying. It has " been outside" and yes text is subject to interpretation. Next we could debate Freud. Glenn is a great mechanic who is also responsible for what he puts in to text on this forum. I respect your position. You can only reply to what I have posted. If I may remind you, we are not just members of a forum. We have businesses and what is said on this forum affects our income. I have continually listened to Ernesto and others get bashed by Glenn on this forum. I have made phone calls to Glenn about negative things he has said about myself and other mechanics. Glenn denies it in conversation and turns around and stabs you in the back. I have been professional and this continues. It would be tolerable if all things said were true. That is not the case.

btoneill said:

I'll also add in that RKC gets attacked a lot on here. Sometimes it gets hard to distinguish between someone being a hater and someone with an honest critique. There are many people on here who seem to post nothing but negative comments on any thread about any subject and it is hard to NOT call them out. I find myself calling people out a lot on the subjects I feel comfortable commenting on. I tend to read just about every comment made on the mechanics forum, not just threads that interest me. When I take the combined sum of all of RKC's posts I see a very different picture then just looking at the posts he makes in the threads that end up getting "hot". IMHO he has fun calling out people who put up false information, not to prove he's right, but to prove the other person who is positive they are right, wrong.

Does RKC have an ego? Yes. Do I learn a lot from his posts? Most definitely. Could there be better mechanics on this forum than RKC who never post? Possible. If there are, I've learned ZERO from them, because, they don't post. I'll take the person with the ego who is sharing his knowledge with anyone who HONESTLY wants to learn from him over the modest person who sits back and doesn't share a single thing, even if the modest person is 10x better than the one with the ego, because, what good is knowledge if it isn't shared.

Just tossing in my 2 cents worth

Brian

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I am not a hater. Glenn and I have had many conversations. It is not simply a matter of who is silent and who speaks. Who decides who is number one or number two? Who cares. The point I am making is many are silent or have become silent because they fear an argument. This forum is for debate, not lecture! It is not a test or competition. I am more than aware of what is true and what is a lie. I speak with many other mechanics from this forum. I know what is and what isn't.

As for knowledge? Look back at the threads. Can you actually post an on this forum without getting pounced on? Look closely. There are many contradictions.

I was in Las Vegas this summer for the trade show. I stretched a 9 foot Simonis cloth on a ten foot table. I didn't shoot the staples or the glue it. No, I yanked every inch of the cloth. Later I stood next to Glenn in a both listening to a story about the 9 foot cloth he stretched on a 10 foot table. I was 2 feet away and so were a few other mechanics. I could care less about the cloth it is not something I saver as an accomplishment. On the other hand why BS about it. This is the RKC me, me, me i,i,i show.

btoneill said:

Didn't mean to imply that you are a hater, just stating that there are many of them.

On my posts, it seem that it is normally one of like 4 or 5 people who make the nasty and/or ignorant comments. Most of the rest of the time I feel I get decent responses, many of them from RKC. I also notice that there tends to be a lot of animosity between some members and others. I try to ignore that when I see it as much as possible.

Maybe I've just become numb to all of it from being on online chat/forums/usenet/etc in various incarnations for almost 20 years now.

Brian

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Actually I totally agree with most of what you said. I remain quiet most of the time as well. This forum draws me in sometime. I used to think many of the arguments were petty. I have learned they are like an iceberg, [ more beneath the surface]. I struggled for months and fought the urge to fire back. I realize this is unprofessional and totally agree with Mr. Bond's opinion of my post. I reluctantly typed the words.

Remember I am on that list of so called top mechanics or master mechanics. I never made any claims about my skill level as a mechanic. I provide a service in a thorough fashion. I am punctual, polite and the work is the best I am capable of. We don't need ratings. We need to get it right for the customer. Yes I am a mechanic. At the end of the day when the table is complete, it was merely installed. Yes I am an Installer. Aren't we all. Do you really have to be able to cut off or patch subrails to provide quality service. Subrails compile 1 or 2% of my business. Does it mean all the rest of my time is waisted on someones 3 or 4,000 dollar pool table set -up. Thank goodness the customer doesn't know how easy it is to set-up a table. Of course I am being sarcastic. This work is an art form to anyone with pride. It is an insult to remind anyone of there shortcomings. Some mechanics are happy as installers. Some want to tear a table apart and re assemble the pieces. No one should have to wear a title. I have respect for what we do, this is tough work. Since when do i need a ranking.

realkingcobra said:

Furthermore, let me tell you something....ALL of you...something. If you guys don't show your work to be the best in this industry...then there is no STANDARD for the customers to look at...no examples to go by, no way of knowing they got what they paid for.

If you DON"T show what you're capable of...so that OTHERS might learn from you...then...YOU...are just as guilty of holding this industry back...as the manufactures of tables are, the cloth manufactures, cushion manufactures....the list goes on and on.

You all talk about wanting to come together in this industry and create something....just what in the hell is it you want to create...if not a better industry for all...and yes, that means even in your own back yard! No, I don't think so...because you're all to busy looking out for yourselves to really care about this industry as a whole...and that means nothing would really change at all...so, what's the real point of creating something?

Bob, you're always more concerned about the hacks in your area, when in fact....if you did more to promote yourself...the hacks wouldn't stand a chance in hell of getting the jobs you get...because THEM customers do care about the work done on their tables....but, without help from you to educate them as to WHO you are, and WHAT you're all about....how are they suppose to know who in the hell YOU are.....silence don't get the hacks out of this industry buddy....screaming from the top of the mountain DOES!

I don't know, maybe I am the best....maybe I'm not...you're right, who cares...except the 100's and 100's of people that have SEEN my work, listened to what I've had to say....and believe in me....even in YOUR OWN back yard.....that I can't possibly get to...to do the work!...remember Sandcastle Billiards....wanting me to do the work on their tables?????????...What did I do Bob?????????...I passed the work to you...all of it...and backed you 100% to do the work as well....even to the point of telling them I couldn't get there....but if they wanted it done right...that they NEEDED to get in contact with YOU!

If you've learned anything from me at this point in time Bob...then take it to the top of the mountain and shout it out....I'M A GREAT TABLE MECHANIC....ONE OF THE BEST IN THE WORLD!!!!! No one's going to care....except that customer that don't know who to call to get the best work done that money will buy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glen

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Glenn, I learned to stand up for myself 19 years ago. I am a MARINE. I stayed silent by choice. Nothing to do with a lack of courage.

I will tell you what my Gripe is. I spent a lot of money in my shop acquiring tooling to fix sub rails. Mark Gregory [ Sorry Mark] Has an awesome shop. You told me that four mechanics were going to be trained to repair sub rails. We are over that number already. Will it stop? I spent $7000 on my shop. Should I sell before the neighbor learns the process? [Sorry it sounded funny] But seriously are we going to show the world. I am certain that the mechanics you have chosen are fantastic. How do you think the might feel if you train a few more? How are they going to feel when the hack down the street grabs the job for half the cash. The best part! That hack learned his sales pitch on this forum. He looks at a couple of pictures and rehearses what you post here. He bids at half the price. This just happened to Mark in his back yard. The guy called him for lessons!
I could flood this post with pictures. I choose not to. My tables play great. Those are not my words. Sandcastle Billiards was very happy. I thanked you for the opportunity. You pointed me in the right direction and Mark has helped me refine my skills.

Further more you flat out pissed me off. You taught Mark? He didn't teach you anything? A little grace goes along way. He keeps quite, but I know how good a mechanic he is. His tables play better then any table I have shot on.

Glenn you mean well. You are an inspiring character and a great mechanic. I wish you could tone down the ego. Some of us are Installers and some of us work on sub-rails but everyone deserves respect.

realkingcobra said:

Well, just so happens that Mark is with us...so, let me clarify this for you Bob, No..I didn't teach Mark to cut the sub-rails off...he was doing that on his own before I met up with him....as he and I both know, what I showed him was that you don't have to always cut the sub-rails off to repair the rails....even I've cut the sub-rails off long before I got involved with Diamond. What Mark learned from me...and with me, was how to calibrate rails to perfection...starting with the thickness of the sub-rails themselves, just as you have. Then came the tooling to re-cut the bevels to correct bevels the way it's done now...tooling for this?...it don't matter as long as the end job is perfect. Teach only 4 people this kind of work?...yep, who else in your backyard knows how to do this kind of work? I seam to remember an ex partner of yours that wanted to learn how to do this kind of work...and I turned him down because you were already on the list for your area. But, do you think only 4 mechanic's doing this kind of work are going to service this whole country? No, besides that it wouldn't be fair to Donny....thousands of miles from you not to learn as well. Same as Zach in the Phoenix, AZ area....unless you plan traveling to that area of the US to provide service....do you? Those that I've taught are not in competing areas to each other, so that we might be able to offer this service to a wider range of customers across the US...NOT just in your backyard

I also taught Mark how to stretch index the cloth, and how to glue it down. Did I teach Mark anything else, or did Mark learn anything else from me...I don't know, you'll have to ask Mark that question. I rebuild sub-rails my way, Mark and you rebuild them your ways, don't matter...but never the less....the process of getting to the end results still came from me. Now, what's the point to all this with you? You're a great table mechanic Bob...what's the problem?

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It does not matter how far away someone is. You said one thing than did another. That is my point. Oh well par for the course. I have no issue with Zach, Donny or any of your choices. You said one thing, I invested money then you did something else. My problem! It takes one guy to spill the beans. ONE !!! This isn't rocket science. It"s more like scrabble. To many pictures to much info on a public forum.

realkingcobra said:

Bob, I'm a Viet Nam vet, served 9 years in the Army, last 3 with the Rangers...yes, I to have courage, now what does that have to do with confidants? Confidants is what I'm talking about, in order to get others to believe in you...YOU must first believe in yourself...and take that belief and SHOW it to others...that they might too believe in you. But to stand back and be silent and hope for the work...hope you get called instead of a hack...that's where you're wrong. Ask Mark...I told him the SAME thing too!

If you want to be known as a great mechanic....then YOU have to do something about it...besides just doing the work...that's GREAT...but not enough! And Bob...I TOO play pool, and very well I might add so just to let you know, I can also tell if a table plays right or not...AND...have been able to tell that looooooong before you were ever working on tables but I do believe that any great table mechanic...will hit the exact same playing conditions on a finished table...no different than any other great table mechanic. I guarantee you, Mark don't rebuild tables any better than I do...and I don't rebuild them any better than he does, and if you're rebuilding them right...then neither one of us has anything on you.

So, once again...why all this...instead of just calling me?

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Rack the balls you got action!!!