How do you develop this strong of stroke
- Thread starter 3kushn
- Start date
Thanks again for the link.
I watched the entire 38 minutes.
Then I had to take a nap.
John
This refers to an absolutely standard technique in artistic pool and billiards to make masse last for a long, long time and to get huge arcs in various shots. You use either wax or silicone spray on the cue ball. It makes the cue ball very slippery which causes spin to work very slowly and you get amazing action, as seen in the video. Also, wax/silicone keeps spin from dying when you go into a cushion, so you can quadruple a cushion when otherwise you might only be able to double it with follow.
(Edit: ) I should point out that in the official competition the balls are clean but not waxed. The wax only comes out for exhibitions and demonstrations like in the link. Some of the more recent additions to the competition have been adapted from the waxy shots developed by Rojas and others but they are not quite as unbelievable -- just very difficult.
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I was referring to the masse shots. Seems to be a lot of those.
One thing the reduces the amount of stress on masse shots is that they are usually shot with a dart grip (thumb up, little finger down) so the forearm is in a more natural position. But masses constitute only 10% of the official program: http://www.ciba-online.net/figures2002/figures_main.htm
Click the list on right side for some of the shots
http://www.vas-online.be/
http://www.vas-online.be/
Where can Masse cues be purchased?
Thanks and Happy New Year
John
Thanks and Happy New Year
John
Most cue makers who can make shafts can make masse shafts for your current cue stick. Ask for a 14mm ferrule and 50 inches total length.
Thanks Bob.
John
John
Low reps heavy weight, you want to build fast twitch muscle fibers. (like a sprinter has) Light weights and high reps build endurance (like marathon runners) which are slow twitch muscle fibers.
You build endurance with lighter weights, and strength with lower weight.
Speed of reps (quick motion) will hurt only if you break form. You want to focus only on the muscle group involved and not bring others into play.
You build endurance with lighter weights, and strength with lower weight.
Speed of reps (quick motion) will hurt only if you break form. You want to focus only on the muscle group involved and not bring others into play.
Thanks for the info. Is it important to have the same range of motion as in the pool/billiard stroke during the reps?
Crown Cues makes a great masse' cue, and they are AzBrs, as well as huge supporters of amateur pool.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Where can Masse cues be purchased?
Thanks and Happy New Year
John
I had looked quickly for a routine and found reference to medicine ball training for this particular muscle but forgot to update my response. Might have to add this to my New Year's Resolutions.
In my old school mind I say yes.
However, what I know about how strength training has changed in the last 30 years there is more of an emphasis on partial range of motion exercises today.
For example in bench press training today there is more emphasis on partial movements, ie training the lockout portion of the lift vs the entire range of motion. Some of this is explained by the equipment that has become popular, (and required) to compete at a high level. It used to be 30 years ago that the hardest part of a bench-press was moving the still mass off your chest.
With the equipment being used now (special shirts and suits) the hardest part of the lift is getting the mass to settle "on your chest" The equipment provides a spring for the first 4 to six inches of the lift, leaving the hardest part now to lockout the lift with your triceps.
Now since nobody I know has developed a special shirt that provides additional energy to a pool stroke, I think it best to train the entire range of motion.
However, what I know about how strength training has changed in the last 30 years there is more of an emphasis on partial range of motion exercises today.
For example in bench press training today there is more emphasis on partial movements, ie training the lockout portion of the lift vs the entire range of motion. Some of this is explained by the equipment that has become popular, (and required) to compete at a high level. It used to be 30 years ago that the hardest part of a bench-press was moving the still mass off your chest.
With the equipment being used now (special shirts and suits) the hardest part of the lift is getting the mass to settle "on your chest" The equipment provides a spring for the first 4 to six inches of the lift, leaving the hardest part now to lockout the lift with your triceps.
Now since nobody I know has developed a special shirt that provides additional energy to a pool stroke, I think it best to train the entire range of motion.
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Maybe I'm missing something here. Carom billiards is played on heated tables with fast cloth and super clean balls.
As I wrote before, if anything, I can see a possibility of tendonitis from repetition of practicing masse shots, but other than that, where's the need for all that muscle building?
Some of the shots require pretty good stick speed. Many of the shots can be made with moderate speed and good accuracy, but I think the percentage on the tougher shots is helped by strength -- it's better not to be at the limit of your ability on any shot.
Have you had a chance to look at the shots in the program, Fran?
Yes I saw the diagrams, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know which shots, if any, would benefit from increased physical strength. My only reference is from the exhibitions I've seen at the end of the carom events at Carom Billiards in NYC, and videos like the one posted by the op.
If you say that improving physical strength helps, I'll believe it, but conceptually, it's hard for me to picture. When I play on those tournament tables, I find that all you have to do is barely touch the ball and it moves incredibly fast.
I think technique is more important than strength, I'm not sure that increased strength would necessarily allow you to accelerate the cue more quickly.
Although strength training would definitely help with overall fitness and could prevent injuries from the repetitive motion, the same way that people in good shape from exercise/weights using the upper body rarely develop tennis or golfer's elbow, other than the occasional trauma-type injury. Those typical repetitive motion or stress injuries are usually reserved for the weekend warrior who is not in the greatest of overall shape...
Also, this was posted in the carom section, check out this guy's video on masse technique, he really goes into a lot of detail about the stroke itself and the levers involved, and as you can see he's pretty proficient with it. I'm hoping he follows it up with the second video he references, that's the one I really want to see...
http://www.juanjotrilles.com/ap/cm.aspx?id=145
Scott
Although strength training would definitely help with overall fitness and could prevent injuries from the repetitive motion, the same way that people in good shape from exercise/weights using the upper body rarely develop tennis or golfer's elbow, other than the occasional trauma-type injury. Those typical repetitive motion or stress injuries are usually reserved for the weekend warrior who is not in the greatest of overall shape...
Also, this was posted in the carom section, check out this guy's video on masse technique, he really goes into a lot of detail about the stroke itself and the levers involved, and as you can see he's pretty proficient with it. I'm hoping he follows it up with the second video he references, that's the one I really want to see...
http://www.juanjotrilles.com/ap/cm.aspx?id=145
Scott