Next Level

1ab

1ab

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am being coached by a very well seasoned player who has increased my perceptions as well as my fundamentals immensely. It has now become a point of contention with my inability to "play for shape angles" rather than shape. He contends I will not be able to advance to the "next level" unless I can consistently realize this need. Are there simple thoughts of association that I could think about that might help me ?
 
C

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
Try practicing a little one pocket. There's no way you can run any balls without ensuring you are getting the right angle and staying on the right side of the ball.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
1ab said:
I am being coached by a very well seasoned player who has increased my perceptions as well as my fundamentals immensely. It has now become a point of contention with my inability to "play for shape angles" rather than shape. He contends I will not be able to advance to the "next level" unless I can consistently realize this need. Are there simple thoughts of association that I could think about that might help me ?
Click to expand...
I'm perplexed by your question. I would think that just a few examples would demonstrate why "the right angle" on a shot can be important as "a good shot". Here's one: freeze the 7 to the middle of the end rail. Put the cue ball on that same end rail, also frozen and 10 inches from the 7. Put the 8 ball in the middle of the other end rail. Make the 7 and get position on the 8. Next, try the same setup but move the cue ball off the cushion to give a half-ball shot on the 7. Is it clear that a perfect position to make just the next ball might be a disaster overall?

Some layouts are easy shots with many options so that a drunk Girl Scout could run out if you just held her up to the table. Your goal should be to progress to handling tougher situations. In those situations you will have to play more precise position. Sometimes that requires you to leave nearly a straight shot and other times you will need a "nice" angle -- again, it depends on the layout.

Here's a drill: freeze four solids on the long rails each one a diamond from the corner pockets. Freeze the three remaining solids and the eight ball on the long rails in the center of each rail section (two diamonds from the corner pockets). Now move each object ball an inch off the cushion. You have ball in hand and the solids. Run out this table.
 
F

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1ab said:
I am being coached by a very well seasoned player who has increased my perceptions as well as my fundamentals immensely. It has now become a point of contention with my inability to "play for shape angles" rather than shape. He contends I will not be able to advance to the "next level" unless I can consistently realize this need. Are there simple thoughts of association that I could think about that might help me ?
Click to expand...

What's the difference between playing for shape angles and shape?
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
FranCrimi said:
What's the difference between playing for shape angles and shape?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm unclear as well. To me playing shape has always meant getting to the right area in order to be able to make the next ball AND get position on the one after that and so on - not just to get position for a straight in shot on the next ball.

So unless it is indeed what Bob was addressing, I'm not sure I understand the terminology either.

But to the OP, if that is what you are talking about, try thinking 3 balls ahead at all times rather than just the next shot. That might help.
 
The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
I think he is likely talking about coming into the shape zone on an angle instead of directly across the next shot line which allows for the cue ball to be on the shot line for an extended period of travel and decreases the need for pinpoint speed... If I come 1 rail out I may have a small window for staying on the right side of the ball and getting position... If I come 2 or 3 I can come down into position where I may be fine for 7-8 inches still seeing the shot and staying on the proper side.... I don't recall where I was originally introduced to the concept but I think it was in print.....
 
Tony_in_MD

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Absolutely. It is always best to roll into a position zone rather then across it whenever possible.

I am still not sure though what the OP's instructor is referring too, though. It seems that there are many interpretations of what we think he means.

To the OP the best advice you gotten was to ask him for details and examples of drills for this concept.

The Renfro said:
I think he is likely talking about coming into the shape zone on an angle instead of directly across the next shot line which allows for the cue ball to be on the shot line for an extended period of travel and decreases the need for pinpoint speed... If I come 1 rail out I may have a small window for staying on the right side of the ball and getting position... If I come 2 or 3 I can come down into position where I may be fine for 7-8 inches still seeing the shot and staying on the proper side.... I don't recall where I was originally introduced to the concept but I think it was in print.....
Click to expand...
 
1ab

1ab

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I will include more drills to help me as well as play some One Pocket to better enable my sense of understanding of what my coach is trying to get through to me. He says all too often I become so intent on perfect shape that I handcuff myself in pattern play. He says that I get "straight" way to often. He says the only way through a pattern is to be on the right side of a previous ball for future position and that has to repeat itself. That's not only hard for me to explain, it's hard to realize as I'm in the middle of the action.Thus the request for objects of thought, rules of thumb so to speak.I think I see 2 balls ahead but when I fail at that shape I have to wonder if I'm being honest with myself.Thanks to everyone for your comments.
 
Tony_in_MD

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Getting straight in on balls makes for playing postion tough, as your choices are limited for moving the cueball.

You have to recognize the pattern, and the angle necessary to move the cueball to the next postion zone (which will be another angle in relation to the OB) After you recognize it you have to execute it.

It is unclear to me if you have trouble recognizing the best postion angles to have, or you are having trouble executing in rolling the cueball to that area.

I would suggest you first break this all down into it's component parts....

What I would do first are drills in which I pocket balls and move the cueball to a target (start with an 8 X 10 piece of paper). You can place the paper on the table anywhere, but I would suggest starting it out in the center of the table. Learning how to play center postion on the table works for many games. Setup shots requiring draw, follow, cuts, and the use of rails to get to the target. Use your imagination. As you become proficient landing the cueball on the target, cut the paper in half, and then in half again till it is about the size of a folded bar napkin. When you get the cueball to land on a target that small, you will have made huge strides in your game.

Kim Davenport's target pool was a game based upon this drill.









1ab said:
I will include more drills to help me as well as play some One Pocket to better enable my sense of understanding of what my coach is trying to get through to me. He says all too often I become so intent on perfect shape that I handcuff myself in pattern play. He says that I get "straight" way to often. He says the only way through a pattern is to be on the right side of a previous ball for future position and that has to repeat itself. That's not only hard for me to explain, it's hard to realize as I'm in the middle of the action.Thus the request for objects of thought, rules of thumb so to speak.I think I see 2 balls ahead but when I fail at that shape I have to wonder if I'm being honest with myself.Thanks to everyone for your comments.
Click to expand...
 
The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
Neil said:
One way you can look at it is this- (playing 9 ball) you have ball in hand on the one. Now, before you place the cb so you can easily get on the 2, look at the 2. If you had BIH on the 2, where would you place it so you could easily get on the 3? When you find THAT spot, you now know where to place the cb on the one so you can easily get to the spot you want to be at for the 2.

In other words, don't just look at the next ball, and get shape to make it. Your position play is to get the cb to a place where you can make the next ball, and easily get to the one after that.

I'll go to the cuetable and set something up for you in the next post.
Click to expand...

Ending up straight in probably costs me as many racks as anything these days... It actually is the main reason I have for missing shots due to having to force the action and do more with the cueball than I should have... It usually happens when I start playing too fast... The balls are flying in and I get perfect position where I am out as long as I don't do something silly and whammo I am straight in on a ball and cannot get across table without super dave draw or follow..... It's an easy fix tho...

Add this one step to what Neil has told you..... After picking the spot where you would place the cueball for the 2 ball walk around behind the spot like the cue ball is there and mentally shoot the 2ball... You do not need to spend the time to fully imagine the shot Just the cueball position making the 2ball and the line it will take coming off the 2ball... Basically you are reinforcing the pinpoint position you want after you shoot the 1ball..... Without this step and playing zonal position the subconscious may get you straight in... Over and Over and Over........

It does add a few seconds to the front of your routine but I am betting you are not a slow player from your comments so it won't hurt.....
 
F

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1ab said:
I will include more drills to help me as well as play some One Pocket to better enable my sense of understanding of what my coach is trying to get through to me. He says all too often I become so intent on perfect shape that I handcuff myself in pattern play. He says that I get "straight" way to often. He says the only way through a pattern is to be on the right side of a previous ball for future position and that has to repeat itself. That's not only hard for me to explain, it's hard to realize as I'm in the middle of the action.Thus the request for objects of thought, rules of thumb so to speak.I think I see 2 balls ahead but when I fail at that shape I have to wonder if I'm being honest with myself.Thanks to everyone for your comments.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you understand your coach very well but you're just frustrated with yourself. Don't be. The learning process takes time. Trust the process and trust your coach. Learning how to play position is one of the biggest hurdles to overcome. Everyone goes through it.
 
1ab

1ab

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I reside in Lafayette IN. My experience with this sport began many years ago,and unfortunately was mixed with more alcohol than knowledge. Choosing sobriety kept me out the game for quite a while, but a friend asked me to join a league about 5 years ago and I realized the game from a completely different vantage point. My coach led to this website to which I feel is a true blessing. The responses I've received are so appreciated I can't tell you, and yes they have helped very much. I feel very lucky to have instructors as well as friends to share information and help make this journey more enjoyable.
 
steev

steev

Lazy User
Silver Member
I'll chime in, since I started this...

The concept I'm trying to get across is focusing the mind on two balls ahead. If you don't actively think about it, your subconscious will figure shape on its own, usually straight in (and your subconscious gets better at it as you get better!).

As to speed control, going across/through shape zones, and other techniques, they're all tools to achieve that end. Great to practice, but if you're not in the mode of looking two ahead, useless.

What we're trying to achieve right now is stopping situations where the runout gets derailed. Wrong side, straight in, hooked...avoidable in most cases.

So, any thoughts along those lines would be most helpful.

-s
 
The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
Quit taking one last quick peak at the next ball before you pull the trigger... Instead take one last quick peak at the spot on the table you want to get to and try and block out the next ball from the subconscious equation.....

Almost everyone I know will take one last look at the next ball before they pull the trigger... If that is last piece of information you fed the machine what else do you expect but straight in?????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top