SBX Alex vs. Earl - foul or no foul

strmanglr scott · Apr 15, 2018

Pretty sure that's a foul in my league.

Didn't change the outcome of the match?

Lol, I bet it did. From what I've watched of Earl, when he gets worked up he usually plays better.

Michael Andros · Apr 15, 2018

Bob Jewett said:
Here's the CSI/BCAPL rule:

d. Placing hand in pocket: It is a deliberate foul if you catch any ball that is falling into a pocket, or place your hand into a pocket while any ball in play is in motion near that pocket. (AR p. 97)

Under the World Standardized Rules, it is not a foul to simply place your hand anywhere -- you would have to touch a ball for it to be a foul. Of course the WSR assume that you have a ref.

I would add, simply from an etiquette standpoint, it's ball in hand to opponent. To me, it's very much akin to a player breaking his cue apart as his opponent addresses the game ball. If that's me addressing the ball? I don't even shoot the money. Breaking the cue is waving the white flag. Game over, gimme the post.

pt109 · Apr 15, 2018

I can't believe Alex did that...a kindergarten move.
....I would not argue if it was called a foul.
..by the time you stop playing YMCA rules, you're supposed to be over those moves.

But if Alex says he didn't touch it, I believe him.

Michael Andros · Apr 15, 2018

pt109 said:
I can't believe Alex did that...a kindergarten move.
....I would not argue if it was called a foul.
..by the time you stop playing YMCA rules, you're supposed to be over those moves.

But if Alex says he didn't touch it, I believe him.

PT - Even if he didn't touch it, he still should've been "Oops, my bad, sorry... take bih." Right? Seems like a no-brainer.

pt109 · Apr 15, 2018

Michael Andros said:
PT - Even if he didn't touch it, he still should've been "Oops, my bad, sorry... take bih." Right? Seems like a no-brainer.

This is where I get all screwed up in my appraisal.
A- I wouldn't do that....so I have difficulty thinking about what should be done
B- I have gambled in lots of rooms where the rules were non-standard.
...so I don't always hold other players to the way I conduct myself
C- So many problems with this game would disappear if we grew up and used refs

...in reviewing this post, I think it reaffirms that I got an IQ that is room temperature....
....in an igloo....

smashmouth · Apr 15, 2018

not only is that a blatant foul, but pool imo needs rules that punishes further than bih, like an automatic frame loss

other sports categorize their fouls, pool should too

Michael Andros · Apr 15, 2018

pt109 said:
This is where I get all screwed up in my appraisal.
A- I wouldn't do that....so I have difficulty thinking about what should be done
B- I have gambled in lots of rooms where the rules were non-standard.
...so I don't always hold other players to the way I conduct myself
C- So many problems with this game would disappear if we grew up and used refs

...in reviewing this post, I think it reaffirms that I got an IQ that is room temperature....
....in an igloo....

Abso F'ING lutely they should have refs! In a tourney this big? They should at LEAST have refs in every round from the third on, minimum. I mean... srsly? Come on, guys! That's just a crock.

ChrisinNC · Apr 15, 2018

pt109 said:
I can't believe Alex did that...a kindergarten move.
....I would not argue if it was called a foul.
..by the time you stop playing YMCA rules, you're supposed to be over those moves.

But if Alex says he didn't touch it, I believe him.

If Alex gets word of this thread, I would guess this will be the last time he gets caught with his hands in a pocket - LOL !

fish on · Apr 15, 2018

pt109 said:
I can't believe Alex did that...a kindergarten move.
....I would not argue if it was called a foul.
..by the time you stop playing YMCA rules, you're supposed to be over those moves.

But if Alex says he didn't touch it, I believe him.

I was 10 feet from that pocket in the stands and he put his small hands in to pocket , when ball did not drop, Alex quickly removed his hand with a earl standing over him! Earl told him immediately but earl was in control of match and as Earl has said in the past alternate break rules out big comebacks and he was up i believe then 12 to 5 in a race to 13 ? Earl was shooting terrific in both matches I saw
The Gomez and Alex matches were blowouts congratulations Earl for something beautiful to watch!

Michael Andros · Apr 15, 2018

fish on said:
I was 10 feet from that pocket in the stands and he put his small hands in to pocket , when ball did not drop, Alex quickly removed his hand with a earl standing over him! Earl told him immediately but earl was in control of match and as Earl has said in the past alternate break rules out big comebacks and he was up i believe then 12 to 5 in a race to 13 ? Earl was shooting terrific in both matches I saw
The Gomez and Alex matches were blowouts congratulations Earl for something beautiful to watch!

Earl is a force of nature.

jrctherake · Apr 15, 2018

Shermanscs said:
I was at the Super Billiards Expo this week and I was wondering if anyone else in this forum saw this and has an opinion if it was a foul or not. Before I start, I want to say that I am a fan of both of these players and it is going to sound like I am questioning the ethics of Alex Pagulayan, which I am not. I happen to think he is quite a good ambassador for the sport and I love watching him play. I also think he is one of the most fun, fan friendly players out there.

With all those caveats out of the way, here is what happened.
Alex was behind in the match to Earl in an elimination round. Earl was on the hill and Alex was coming back & was about 5 or so games behind. Alex breaks and the cue ball comes flying back straight to the left corner pocket. Alex quickly puts his hand inside the corner pocket to catch the cue ball, then just as the cue hits the corner pocket, in an instant, he quickly pulls his hand away. From the stands it gave the illusion that his hand hit the cue ball, preventing it from dropping in the pocket. Earl protested to Alex about him putting his hand in the pocket and claimed he touched the ball, preventing it from scratching. Alex denied touching the ball & continued to play the rack, winning another rack or so.

Ultimately, Earl won the match anyway, so it really didn't change the outcome of the game. But I am interested to know if anyone else out there saw that match and has an opinion on whether or not it looked as if Alex interfered with the ball.

Nonetheless, it was a very entertaining match and both players played their hearts out.

- Steve

It's a foul....period.

Maniac · Apr 15, 2018

As far as I'm concerned, all the pool organizations in the world ought to have it in their rules that a hand placed into a pocket while any ball on the table is in motion is a concession, just like conceding a game when your opponent has a 1-foot straight in 9-ball.

The offending player by placing his hand in the pocket is conceding that the cueball is going to scratch and once the hand is placed into the pocket that is the end of his/her inning even if the offender realizes the cue ball is NOT going to scratch and hurriedly removes the hand.

That's just my opinion. A professional of Alex's experience should know better.

Maniac

Kats 11 · Apr 16, 2018

Shooting player placing his hand inside the pocket to catch the cb weather he touched or not the ball IS an automatic foul.unless said the opposite by the organizers of the certain tournament

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trob · Apr 16, 2018

Well here comes a 20 page thread by the nit know it alls that can’t possible imagaine anyone making a mistake during a match because all of you are perfect right ? Alex is always plays the game with a degree with level of sportsmanship 2nd to none. It was a mistake... we all made them. Who cares...

ChrisinNC · Apr 16, 2018

trob said:
Well here comes a 20 page thread by the nit know it alls that can’t possible imagaine anyone making a mistake during a match because all of you are perfect right ? Alex is always plays the game with a degree with level of sportsmanship 2nd to none. It was a mistake... we all made them. Who cares...

You are correct: Mistake = Ball-in-Hand

Black-Balled · Apr 16, 2018

trob said:
Well here comes a 20 page thread by the nit know it alls that can’t possible imagaine anyone making a mistake during a match because all of you are perfect right ? Alex is always plays the game with a degree with level of sportsmanship 2nd to none. It was a mistake... we all made them. Who cares...

Who pissed in your corn flakes?

Maniac · Apr 16, 2018

trob said:
It was a mistake... we all made them. Who cares...

I could be wrong, Mr. Know-It-All....but I'm pretty sure Earl cared. :wink:

Maniac

Bob Jewett · Apr 16, 2018

Kats 11 said:
Shooting player placing his hand inside the pocket to catch the cb weather he touched or not the ball IS an automatic foul.unless said the opposite by the organizers of the certain tournament ...

Not according to some official sets of rules.

Kats 11 · Apr 16, 2018

Bob Jewett said:
Not according to some official sets of rules.

Ok sir I accept that

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fish on · Apr 16, 2018

Maniac said:
I could be wrong, Mr. Know-It-All....but I'm pretty sure Earl cared. :wink:

Maniac

Earl did not object much at all 10 second conversation Alex apologized smiled and Earl accepted .Earl did not ask for Referee ruling

SBX Alex vs. Earl - foul or no foul

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