Shaft recommendations
Old
  (#1)
Tennesseejoe
AzB Silver Member
Tennesseejoe has a reputation beyond reputeTennesseejoe has a reputation beyond reputeTennesseejoe has a reputation beyond reputeTennesseejoe has a reputation beyond reputeTennesseejoe has a reputation beyond reputeTennesseejoe has a reputation beyond reputeTennesseejoe has a reputation beyond reputeTennesseejoe has a reputation beyond reputeTennesseejoe has a reputation beyond reputeTennesseejoe has a reputation beyond reputeTennesseejoe has a reputation beyond repute
 
Tennesseejoe's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 1,905
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Middle Tennessee
   
Shaft recommendations - 05-31-2019, 04:38 AM

As instructors, what shaft would you recommend for a C player who is seriously trying to improve?

A standard shaft with higher deflection or a low deflection shaft The player has a usual bridge length of 10 inches.


"Man can neither love nor hate what he does not know." Cicero
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#2)
BilliardsAbout
BondFanEvents.com
BilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond repute
 
BilliardsAbout's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,460
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Gainesville, FL
   
05-31-2019, 04:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennesseejoe View Post
As instructors, what shaft would you recommend for a C player who is seriously trying to improve?

A standard shaft with higher deflection or a low deflection shaft The player has a usual bridge length of 10 inches.
A shorter usual bridge length, until your ball pocketing skills improve.


-- Matt Sherman

Guide to Pool and Billiards, About.com
Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, book/DVD combo, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 20,348
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
05-31-2019, 07:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennesseejoe View Post
As instructors, what shaft would you recommend for a C player who is seriously trying to improve?

A standard shaft with higher deflection or a low deflection shaft The player has a usual bridge length of 10 inches.
It might depend on how the player likes to compensate for squirt. A 10 inch bridge is about right for using backhand english with a high-squirt shaft, but if they like to adjust by feel, then a low-squirt shaft might be better.

pj
chgo
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
Bob Jewett
Northern California

Bob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 16,822
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
   
05-31-2019, 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
It might depend on how the player likes to compensate for squirt. A 10 inch bridge is about right for using backhand english with a high-squirt shaft, but if they like to adjust by feel, then a low-squirt shaft might be better.

pj
chgo
I think that if the student is just beginning to really use side spin, a low-squirt shaft will be easier to learn with. If side spin is already a significant part of their game, I'd agree with the above if they are used to a particular kind of shaft.


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
bbb
AzB Silver Member

bbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 6,800
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2008
   
05-31-2019, 12:35 PM

what do the instructors think about this......
if the student is really new (or old but going back to working on fundamentals)
use a regular shaft to practice your vertical axis drills.
it will magnify your off center (vertical axis )hits compared to an LD shaft
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
FranCrimi
AzB Silver Member
FranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,743
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2010
   
05-31-2019, 02:33 PM

Low deflection shaft for sure.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 20,348
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
05-31-2019, 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I think that if the student is just beginning to really use side spin, a low-squirt shaft will be easier to learn with. If side spin is already a significant part of their game, I'd agree with the above if they are used to a particular kind of shaft.
I wonder how it would work to learn with both. It would surely be more educational, for what that's worth.

pj
chgo
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 20,348
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
05-31-2019, 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
what do the instructors think about this......
if the student is really new (or old but going back to working on fundamentals)
use a regular shaft to practice your vertical axis drills.
it will magnify your off center (vertical axis )hits compared to an LD shaft
I think it's the other way around.

A stroke error pivots the cue at the bridge like backhand english, so the shaft with its pivot point closest to the bridge will come closest to self-correcting like backhand english. Normal shaft pivot points and normal bridge lengths are in the same range (8-12"), so they tend to match most closely. So an LD shaft might work better for your drill.

pj
chgo
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
bbb
AzB Silver Member

bbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 6,800
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2008
   
06-01-2019, 02:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I think it's the other way around.

A stroke error pivots the cue at the bridge like backhand english, so the shaft with its pivot point closest to the bridge will come closest to self-correcting like backhand english. Normal shaft pivot points and normal bridge lengths are in the same range (8-12"), so they tend to match most closely. So an LD shaft might work better for your drill.

pj
chgo
patrick
you understand the science much better than i do.
but if i extend your logic
if the pivot point matches the bridge length on normal shafts and squirt and swerve are self correcting then why need an LD shaft at all?
again i am suggesting if you hit the cue ball off vertical axis ie you are putting unintentional english on the object ball
i still think a normal shaft will magnify your "mis hit" because of "deflection"
am i thinking this thru incorrectly??
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 20,348
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
06-01-2019, 08:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
if the pivot point matches the bridge length on normal shafts and squirt and swerve are self correcting then why need an LD shaft at all?
Squirt (not swerve) is only self-correcting if you pivot right at the shaft's "natural" pivot point. Pivot anywhere else and the correction is either too much or too little.

Quote:
again i am suggesting if you hit the cue ball off vertical axis ie you are putting unintentional english on the object ball
Sure, but the aiming problem is that you're under- or over-correcting for squirt (unless your bridge is right on the shaft's pivot point).

Quote:
am i thinking this thru incorrectly??
I think maybe we both did - we haven't taken into account a couple of less obvious factors:

1. The squirt angle changes more per inch of pivot length difference for higher squirt shafts. This weighs in favor of your answer (higher squirt shafts are less forgiving).

2. Swerve (present on most shots) reduces the effect of squirt, making the "effective" pivot point of any shaft longer. This weighs in favor of my answer (lower squirt shafts are less forgiving).

Given these I'm not sure how the analysis comes out on balance. The difference is at least smaller than I thought.

pj
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 06-01-2019 at 08:07 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
BilliardsAbout
BondFanEvents.com
BilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond repute
 
BilliardsAbout's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,460
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Gainesville, FL
   
06-03-2019, 04:52 AM

Respectfully to all, pivot point shmivot point.

A shorter cue shaft/shorter cue is a boon for some newer players, to help with aim.

A heavier shaft/heavier cue is a boon for some players to help with aim--keeps the cue ball on line a little easier with a center cue ball strike, will exacerbate errors for hits off-center, though.

How about a free pool lesson, with the regular cue/shaft you have now? I'm available.


-- Matt Sherman

Guide to Pool and Billiards, About.com
Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, book/DVD combo, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 20,348
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
06-03-2019, 08:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
A shorter cue shaft/shorter cue is a boon for some newer players, to help with aim.
How so?

Quote:
A heavier shaft/heavier cue ... keeps the cue ball on line a little easier with a center cue ball strike, will exacerbate errors for hits off-center, though.
How so?

Making improbable claims without support isn't very good advertising for your instruction.

pj
chgo
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
BilliardsAbout
BondFanEvents.com
BilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond repute
 
BilliardsAbout's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,460
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Gainesville, FL
   
06-04-2019, 05:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
How so?


How so?

Making improbable claims without support isn't very good advertising for your instruction.

pj
chgo
I'm not the sole instructor who has noted a shorter cue is a little easier for newbies for basic center ball cut shot aiming. Others may disagree but I think this concept is more subjective on my part than objective/tested.

I'm not the sole author who has noted it's a lot easier to stroke a heavier cue straight than a lighter cue (in context, for a typical newbie who uses an overly strong, untutored grip and stroke). There must have been two dozen pool books in the last century that advised a heavier cue for a beginner, for maximal feel and heavy feel, and then moving to a lighter cue after developing to an intermediate, like starting with a 20 oz. than scaling back to a 19 oz. later.

But why did you phrase your second question the way you did? Was that necessary?


-- Matt Sherman

Guide to Pool and Billiards, About.com
Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, book/DVD combo, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 20,348
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
06-04-2019, 05:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
I'm not the sole instructor who has noted a shorter cue is a little easier for newbies for basic center ball cut shot aiming.

...

I'm not the sole author who has noted it's a lot easier to stroke a heavier cue straight than a lighter cue
Maybe these claims wouldn't seem improbable if you were able to answer the "how so" questions...

pj
chgo
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
BilliardsAbout
BondFanEvents.com
BilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond repute
 
BilliardsAbout's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,460
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Gainesville, FL
   
06-05-2019, 04:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Maybe these claims wouldn't seem improbable if you were able to answer the "how so" questions...

pj
chgo
Your remark is post facto--you didn't like my answer so now you're justifying your prior comment.

I don't need to tell you about heavier objects remaining on line via momentum, do I?


-- Matt Sherman

Guide to Pool and Billiards, About.com
Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, book/DVD combo, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.