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why did jose hit the 9 this way?
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evergruven
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why did jose hit the 9 this way? - 07-04-2019, 05:41 PM

it seems intuitive to use outside english on this shot, but jose is using a bit of inside instead- why?

what's funny, is that I like to shoot balls in like this too, but again, I don't really understand how come..
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Bob Jewett
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07-04-2019, 06:17 PM

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Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
... jose is using a bit of inside instead ...
I think it is real hard to tell how much if any right side spin the player is using. How much do you think it is? Does this player routinely line up off-center as an idiosyncrasy?


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Last edited by Bob Jewett; 07-05-2019 at 02:16 PM.
  
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07-04-2019, 07:44 PM

hi bob, this might help..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnT22XJlDHo
have a look about 9 minutes in and let me know what you think- thanks


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07-05-2019, 01:06 PM

You watched the video so you saw where the cue ball went. It's pretty obvious he hit the CB with low left, same as 99.9% of all good players would hit it.
Just because someone addresses the CB in a certain spot doesn't necessarily mean they hit it there. The direction the CB takes will always tell the true story of where it was contacted.
  
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07-05-2019, 02:18 PM

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Originally Posted by sparkle84 View Post
... you saw where the cue ball went. ...
Yes, this is usually the best way to tell where a player has contacted the cue ball. There is a sizeable -- and in my opinion mistaken -- minority that does not address the ball where they intend to hit it.


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07-05-2019, 02:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkle84 View Post
You watched the video so you saw where the cue ball went. It's pretty obvious he hit the CB with low left, same as 99.9% of all good players would hit it.
Just because someone addresses the CB in a certain spot doesn't necessarily mean they hit it there. The direction the CB takes will always tell the true story of where it was contacted.
thanks- I don't think he hit low on it, but you right..the cue ball don't lie.
I was mesmerized by his cue..but he didn't put the tip right until the very last moment.
is that what's called backhand english?


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07-05-2019, 06:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
...he didn't put the tip right until the very last moment.
is that what's called backhand english?
Could be a form of it.

Backhand english is moving your backhand sideways to apply english (pivoting on your bridge). It can be done by "swooping" the tip sideways during the shot stroke (not recommended) or by pivoting first to the amount of spin wanted and stroking straight at the pivoted angle (much better).

It works better with some cues than others, depending on how well your bridge length is matched with the cue's "squirt pivot length".

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07-05-2019, 08:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Could be a form of it.

Backhand english is moving your backhand sideways to apply english (pivoting on your bridge). It can be done by "swooping" the tip sideways during the shot stroke (not recommended) or by pivoting first to the amount of spin wanted and stroking straight at the pivoted angle (much better).

It works better with some cues than others, depending on how well your bridge length is matched with the cue's "squirt pivot length".

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chgo
thanks pat. pretty interesting way to hit a cue ball, and then pool balls-


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07-07-2019, 11:22 AM

After watching the video of the shot and also the highlights of the game immediately following, it doesn't look to me that he hits the ball with right english at all. The path of the cue ball and the spin on it seem to indicate there is either no english on it or possibly a small amount of left. Right english would have killed the action of the cue ball after it hit the end rail and that didn't happen. It seems the camera shooting from the right side may have contributed to that perception.
  
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07-08-2019, 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Could be a form of it.

Backhand english is moving your backhand sideways to apply english (pivoting on your bridge). It can be done by "swooping" the tip sideways during the shot stroke (not recommended) or by pivoting first to the amount of spin wanted and stroking straight at the pivoted angle (much better).

It works better with some cues than others, depending on how well your bridge length is matched with the cue's "squirt pivot length".

pj
chgo
I was of the swooping generation --- not that I'm saying it's better --- it's the way we learned in the 80's. The idea was that starting at or near the center and finishing farther out on the cb would result in less cb squirt. I don't know if that's true or not but one thing I always wondered --- Is swooping even legal? I think the tip stays on the cb longer than just a regular hit.

Any opinions on that?
  
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07-08-2019, 12:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Backhand english is moving your backhand sideways to apply english (pivoting on your bridge). It can be done by "swooping" the tip sideways during the shot stroke (not recommended) or by pivoting first to the amount of spin wanted and stroking straight at the pivoted angle (much better).

It works better with some cues than others, depending on how well your bridge length is matched with the cue's "squirt pivot length".
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
I was of the swooping generation --- not that I'm saying it's better --- it's the way we learned in the 80's. The idea was that starting at or near the center and finishing farther out on the cb would result in less cb squirt. I don't know if that's true or not but one thing I always wondered --- Is swooping even legal? I think the tip stays on the cb longer than just a regular hit.

Any opinions on that?
My first opinion is that however you did it, you did it very well.

I think all strokes, straight or curved, boil down to the instant (1/1000 of a second or so) of tip/ball contact, and if the tip is traveling in the same direction and speed at that moment the results will be the same (contact time, spin, squirt, whatever).

I've never heard the legality of a curved stroke questioned.

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07-08-2019, 01:16 PM

I can provide diagrams again, but I'm confident there is a reason why many pros swoop/backhand on some shots.

There is a difference between "parallel english" taken through point X on the cb and pivot english taken through the same point X, same speed and same force of stroke can certainly change the cue ball action, based on angle of attack.

Striking a globe on a stand through New York can topple the globe stand to the ground, striking across New York on the same globe with the same force of hit as before, spins the globe on its axis instead. Same hit/force/stroke, different angle of incidence.


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07-08-2019, 02:47 PM

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Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
... through New York
...across New York
"Through" vs. "across" are different directions of motion at contact.

Swooping vs. straight backhand English are not different directions of motion at contact.

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07-08-2019, 04:59 PM

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Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
I can provide diagrams again, but I'm confident there is a reason why many pros swoop/backhand on some shots.

There is a difference between "parallel english" taken through point X on the cb and pivot english taken through the same point X, same speed and same force of stroke can certainly change the cue ball action, based on angle of attack.

Striking a globe on a stand through New York can topple the globe stand to the ground, striking across New York on the same globe with the same force of hit as before, spins the globe on its axis instead. Same hit/force/stroke, different angle of incidence.
i would like to see the diagrams
  
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07-08-2019, 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
My first opinion is that however you did it, you did it very well.

I think all strokes, straight or curved, boil down to the instant (1/1000 of a second or so) of tip/ball contact, and if the tip is traveling in the same direction and speed at that moment the results will be the same (contact time, spin, squirt, whatever).

I've never heard the legality of a curved stroke questioned.

pj
chgo
Ha! Thanks Patrick.

This wouldn't be the first time I questioned something that other's may not have questioned yet. Sometimes I'm on to something and other times it turns out to be nonsense. This time I don't think it's nonsense. I think a swipe or swoop does leave the tip on the ball longer because the cue stick isn't traveling straight but rather more around the circumference of the cb in reference to the line of the shot even though the tip is staying in one spot on the cue ball. It's rotating with the ball while it's still on it.

Last edited by FranCrimi; 07-08-2019 at 05:14 PM.
  
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