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straightline
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01-24-2020, 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
The problem with shot alignment by way of contact points or fractions is you're trying to exactly link two minute parts on both the OB and CB which are located and viewed at the fat areas of both balls with about 2mm between each contact point or fraction. A visual mistake on either ball or both results in a missed shot. It's like trying to thread a needle which can be difficult to do. It has to be exact.
This is just a description of the moment of contact. There is no problem with contact aiming. It's geometry. It shows you exactly what the shot is. The equipment has all the functions of the shot built in. The balls will in fact sit there until you place your cue on the shot and set it in motion. There is no curvature or dimensional shifting involved in this process. IOW the balls don't change shape or size or oscillate. You just shoot the shot. It does require that you have developed the appropriate skill set; something on the order of a good well rehearsed stroke.

Fractional aiming is another estimation technique and not a concern here.
  
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SpiderWebComm
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01-24-2020, 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightline View Post
This is just a description of the moment of contact. There is no problem with contact aiming. It's geometry. It shows you exactly what the shot is. The equipment has all the functions of the shot built in. The balls will in fact sit there until you place your cue on the shot and set it in motion. There is no curvature or dimensional shifting involved in this process. IOW the balls don't change shape or size or oscillate. You just shoot the shot. It does require that you have developed the appropriate skill set; something on the order of a good well rehearsed stroke.

Fractional aiming is another estimation technique and not a concern here.
What makes you think I have no clue what contact point aiming and fractions are all about? I know the benefits and I know the pitfalls.

I used contact points or fractions for 20 straight years before learning about CTE.

Joe Tucker and I spent multiple hours and full days together at the table. Nobody teaches or knows more about contact point aiming than he does or has developed specific training balls for it and stroke trainers. The grid system he designed for the CB and OB locations anywhere on the table which gives the numerical link matchup for both balls took a lot of hard work and ingenuity.

Switching from something that worked pretty damn good for 20 years to something else came from two different factors - increased accuracy and consistency.

Can't be any more simple than that. I know contact point aiming and fractions.
Do you really know CTE as I do contact points?

I can see what road this is probably headed down. The same road I've racked up 400,000 miles on going back and forth. No more new tires and cars needed. Be happy what you're doing. Contact points do work. 20 years of first hand experience tells me so.


*******************


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JFIy2ebJIE

Last edited by SpiderWebComm; 01-24-2020 at 09:49 AM.
  
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straightline
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01-24-2020, 09:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie View Post
There is nothing factual about CTE. All marketing is hype and contains no facts.

The accuracy of any method is in the user......not the system. Ghost ball is the one method that works on all shots.......ALL SHOTS!!!!!!!

Contacts points only work when you hit the OB you want to pocket directly with the CB.

Kick shots, simple rail first shots, caroms.

Cue stick placement is determined only by what you need to do with the CB and shot layout.

Ever do a behind the back shot?

Ever shot one handed?

Ever use a bridge?

Ghostball does yield the shot......you just donít know how to use it to do so.
We agree on a CTE the rest not so much.

In my posts on contact aim I'm assuming accurate stroking and ball control

Ghost ball can be used on any shot including combinations and caroms. I call it guessing because the ghost point is critical to aiming but guesstimated in location.

Contact aiming also works on any shot and without guesswork. That this method only applies to direct shots is a ridiculous notion.

As to your other examples, I switch hit instead of behind the back.

Bridge, one handed, kicks, banks, and whatever else are all part of pool. Banks and kicks require more feel and guestimation and are a study unto themselves. Delivering the cue ball for any of these shots, is the same piston technique.
  
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straightline
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01-24-2020, 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
What makes you think I have no clue what contact point aiming and fractions are all about?
My response to your insert is self explanatory. It corrects an errant notion of yours. That's all. Perhaps you articulated a need to dominate (see your road experience) rather than your thoughts on contact systems.
  
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01-24-2020, 12:36 PM

Contact point aiming must work for some pros.https://youtu.be/zZv_4OvNcIg?t=104
Just don't scratch.
Best combo I've seen was shot by Max Eberle at Hard Times.
Second ball was frozen on the rail.
Just like Mike Sigel here, he aimed the tip to the ob's contact point.

Imo majority of the shots do not even need the awareness of the contact point.
Since you are aiming to control the cue ball, you have shot picture in mind ( thick, thin, medium, etc ) and awareness of the tangent line.

PS
I can't believe that shaft broke near the middle.


  
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Dan White
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01-24-2020, 01:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
Contact point aiming must work for some pros.https://youtu.be/zZv_4OvNcIg?t=104

PS
I can't believe that shaft broke near the middle.
If you look carefully you can see that he used an offset visual when he snapped his cue in half.


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01-24-2020, 03:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
If you look carefully you can see that he used an offset visual when he snapped his cue in half.
But...but, but he made the combo. Of course, if he had been using CTE, he wouldn't have scratched.
  
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straightline
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01-24-2020, 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
Contact point aiming must work for some pros.https://youtu.be/zZv_4OvNcIg?t=104
Just don't scratch.
Best combo I've seen was shot by Max Eberle at Hard Times.
Second ball was frozen on the rail.
Just like Mike Sigel here, he aimed the tip to the ob's contact point.

Imo majority of the shots do not even need the awareness of the contact point.
Since you are aiming to control the cue ball, you have shot picture in mind ( thick, thin, medium, etc ) and awareness of the tangent line.


PS
I can't believe that shaft broke near the middle.
I find this to be true. In fact for many cut shots you're better off shooting the cueball carom instead of the OB to the pocket. Still, many shots require a specific object ball line; clearing obstacles, cheating the hole etc. where I find no substitute for contact aiming.

Sigel broke that stick rather deftly; like he's done that before.
  
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duckie
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01-25-2020, 05:40 AM

Thing about contact points is that the contact point on the CB moves around the CB as the cut angle increases.

Meaning that as the cut angle increases, the line between contact points of the CB and OB becomes offset to the actual line the CB will take to the OB.

So, where does your central vision go? If it is on the OB contact point, then it is not where the CB needs to go. And if you are a stick aiming......you can not be aiming the stick at the OB contact point because the path the CB needs to take will be at a angle to the cue.

How do you aim two points that are offset to the actual CB path?

Subconsciously, players are using contact patch........meaning that even though they don’t know it........they are using where the CB needs to be on the table to make the OB and CB go where they need to be.

Last edited by duckie; 01-25-2020 at 05:44 AM.
  
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straightline
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01-25-2020, 06:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie View Post
Thing about contact points is that the contact point on the CB moves around the CB as the cut angle increases.

Meaning that as the cut angle increases, the line between contact points of the CB and OB becomes offset to the actual line the CB will take to the OB.

So, where does your central vision go? If it is on the OB contact point, then it is not where the CB needs to go. And if you are a stick aiming......you can not be aiming the stick at the OB contact point because the path the CB needs to take will be at a angle to the cue.

How do you aim two points that are offset to the actual CB path?

Subconsciously, players are using contact patch........meaning that even though they donít know it........they are using where the CB needs to be on the table to make the OB and CB go where they need to be.
The shot line is always parallel to the contact line so it's not that much of an issue. Further, the center point roll pictured earlier will give you the center ball line and if you need english, backhand english is more than sufficient. If you need more spin, you just develop the offsets you need. For me I just try to look at the cueball flat. That way it's all in front of you no matter the cut angle. And as mentioned above, you can always assume the pocket and just shoot the carom. There are all kinds a ways to visually lock into the hit.
  
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Patrick Johnson
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01-26-2020, 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie View Post
Thing about contact points is that the contact point on the CB moves around the CB as the cut angle increases.
So does the ghost ball "contact patch".

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