When did pocket size change from 5”-5 1/2” to 4 1/2”-5” for professional tournaments?
It’s been a while - when Diamond tables replaced Gold Crown’s and others as the predominant table sponsor for most professional tournaments and for the DCC.When did pocket size change from 5”-5 1/2” to 4 1/2”-5” for professional tournaments?
Very well said. A decent comparison here might be this. Would the general public flee the game of golf if all courses were required to meet professional setups? They would. IMO too.It was with the Diamond Tables for sure. Prior to that , and according to specs that used to be in the BCA Handbook, not sure if they still are, corner pockets were supposed to 4 7/8 to 5 1/8. Not only did the pockets shrink with the Diamonds, but the slate shelf into the pocket became deeper.
Everbody has their own opinion on this. Personally think it was the one of worst things for the game. Yes, nine ball as it had been structured for ESPN became too easy for pros who could play 5 or more hours a day. However, for the average Jack or Jill; and for the general promotion of the game to the public, and success of billiard halls, the discouragement caused by this revised set up with a much higher level of pocketing difficulty greatly diminished the interest of beginners and many casual players as well on 9 foot tables.
Brunswick should have fought much harder to retain their specs as the Gold Standard - but many corporate factors and of course $$$; entered into their decision to just fade away. I would rather have seen a game devised that could be brought to the masses and still maintain a decent level of difficulty even for the pros. Chasing off half the billiard audience by eliminating half the fun of playing proved to be a very poor decision for all except maybe Diamond Billiards and the very best pros we are left with today.
I know many on this site will argue with me over this, but WE HERE represent the very top of the heap in terms of interest in this game and time devoted to the game. Think of all those who started the way we did, pocketing balls is what makes the game fun, some decent level of success breeds interest; making it unreasonably difficult to have fun as novice breeds failure IMO.
Very well said. A decent comparison here might be this. Would the general public flee the game of golf if all courses were required to meet professional setups? They would. IMO too.
I don't think my experiences are unique, especially to guys like me who supported this game in every way for YEARS- buying tables, custom cues, you name it! I had a Gold Crown in my home and played mostly on Gold Crowns with the older pocket standard. I can remember the day I showed up for a nine ball tournament - in NYC- about 8 years ago- the room had all pro cut Diamonds- I had never played on them before. Well needless to say my day was a disaster. Yes I was about 60 at the time; but still shooting real well- on Gold Crowns- and not that I resist a challenge- but I felt that day that this was NOT a good thing for pool- not when EVERY table in the room is set up like this - and they were.
As I said before, I love 14.1 and the only decent room - 1 hour from me- is all pro cut red label Diamonds- and several cut at 4 1/4 I'm sorry but 14.1 was not meant to be played on those tables - only pro level or guys who play on them several hours a day are going to run balls enough for the game to be enjoyable. So I almost never go there, even with free table time daily. I stay with the nine foot 4 3/4 Olhausens with Simonis that are in a Community Center - and I run balls till the cows come home.
IMO 4.5" corners should be the smallest size. Anything less is a joke. I've played on 4.25 and 4" tables and its just not fun at all. Might as well just play snooker.Watch this match, and you'll know why tiny pockets is a terrible idea for pool. These are good players and if I remember correctly there was one or two break and runs in this entire long match. Multiply the problems by ten, and you'll have the average league player experience on such pockets. I do recommend watching the match for the excellent commentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WK1MwRCXAM
It was with the Diamond Tables for sure. Prior to that , and according to specs that used to be in the BCA Handbook, not sure if they still are, corner pockets were supposed to 4 7/8 to 5 1/8. Not only did the pockets shrink with the Diamonds, but the slate shelf into the pocket became deeper.
Everbody has their own opinion on this. Personally think it was the one of worst things for the game. Yes, nine ball as it had been structured for ESPN became too easy for pros who could play 5 or more hours a day. However, for the average Jack or Jill; and for the general promotion of the game to the public, and success of billiard halls, the discouragement caused by this revised set up with a much higher level of pocketing difficulty greatly diminished the interest of beginners and many casual players as well on 9 foot tables.
Brunswick should have fought much harder to retain their specs as the Gold Standard - but many corporate factors and of course $$$; entered into their decision to just fade away. I would rather have seen a game devised that could be brought to the masses and still maintain a decent level of difficulty even for the pros. Chasing off half the billiard audience by eliminating half the fun of playing proved to be a very poor decision for all except maybe Diamond Billiards and the very best pros we are left with today.
I know many on this site will argue with me over this, but WE HERE represent the very top of the heap in terms of interest in this game and time devoted to the game. Think of all those who started the way we did, pocketing balls is what makes the game fun, some decent level of success breeds interest; making it unreasonably difficult to have fun as novice breeds failure IMO.
IMO 4.5" corners should be the smallest size. Anything less is a joke. I've played on 4.25 and 4" tables and its just not fun at all. Might as well just play snooker.
I disagree with most of this. From my travels around the Country the hacks that play regularly, that think the know how to play, all jump on the toughest tables in the house. It’s frustrating to go to some room that only has one or two tougher tables and some hacks are on them. I’ve seen it from California to New York to Florida, to Texas, and everywhere else. Now to some couple that want to drink and have a good time, I don’t think they would even know if a table had 5” or 4.5” pockets, they’re just banging balls around.
I disagree with most of this. From my travels around the Country the hacks that play regularly, that think the know how to play, all jump on the toughest tables in the house. It’s frustrating to go to some room that only has one or two tougher tables and some hacks are on them. I’ve seen it from California to New York to Florida, to Texas, and everywhere else. Now to some couple that want to drink and have a good time, I don’t think they would even know if a table had 5” or 4.5” pockets, they’re just banging balls around.
In a commercial setting all tight pockets do is cost the owner $$$. Having one or two with tighter pockets is ok but not all of them.I agree with some of this. That is the hacks that think they can play LOVE tight pockets, it's not a slam on anyone on this forum in particular. Some great players like tight pockets too, but is see a lot of this crap with low level B players, who only think about pocket size and not too much about position and running out.
The problem is that people that come in to play, just to hang out, while being a source of income is not a steady one. They come in for a date or whatever and then leave and come back maybe twice in a year. Those people may not care much about pool at all. So naturally they don't really care about the pockets either.
Then you have the group of friends, who could be potential regulars, coming in and not making any balls. They won't say anything or complain, but they'll not feel like they're mastering the game, which is a key to bring them back. If you get a feeling of being good, you'll come back. If all you do is rattle balls and look stupid, then...In my country, snooker is often on tv. Every time O'Sullivan has been on there are a few that come in to play snooker, and of course they want the table just as on tv. Looks easy with Ronnie slamming them in, right? After they spent 45 minutes without pocketing anything, they leave and never come back. Recruiting snooker players is not easy, it takes a little time to get that good feeling there.
I'll say this: after my pool club tightned up the pockets, attendance from some of the regulars, even good players, have dropped off. There has been some recruiting that has kept it going (with lots of effort), but many of the old regulars don't play as much and many of the recruits go away quickly. I don't think it was a good move.