Balabushka?... uhhh, Judges?

jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Those Titlist blank cues account for the vast majority of Balabushka fakes. Does not look like a real old Titlist blank either. I'd pass.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Actually, the listing says it is a steel pin.


My bad, had it backwards... steel pin, BRASS joint... here again, are there early GB's that are Hoppe conversions with a brass joint? I've only seen GB's with a steel joint, and one rare one with an ivory joint, which the Glenns snatched up.

Just my op here, but, notwithstanding what the Ebay listing says, I don't think *any* Hoppe cues were made by GB. I believe they were all Brunswick cues ( not sure who the actual cuemaker for Brunswick was... someone here knows, I'm sure, but I am 99.999999999% sure it wasn't GB ). Many cuemakers back then ( GB, Rambow, Palmer cues, Szambodi ) used Brunswick *blanks* which is why they were all somewhat similar in appearance, but, again, very sure GB never made any of the "Hoppe" cues. I could be wrong but if I am, I'm guessing someone here will call me on it.
 

Jon Manning

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This guy is a GB expert! Not only that, he once owned (and commissioned) the Golden Balabushka!
You mere mortals cannot question a man like this!

Lol! Some people....
 

$TAKE HOR$E

champagne - campaign
Silver Member
My dad just sent an ebayer in Deerfield Beach FL a message saying he would buy 3 Martin guitars he had and drive down and and pay cash. Shortly there after the listing was modified to “will not respond to emails”, then they were deleted entirely. Not saying the cue is a scam but there’s lots of fake listings of all kinds in FL lately. I sent the seller a message asking if he would send the cue to Pete for varification if the buyer so desired...
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
My dad just sent an ebayer in Deerfield Beach FL a message saying he would buy 3 Martin guitars he had and drive down and and pay cash. Shortly there after the listing was modified to “will not respond to emails”, then they were deleted entirely. Not saying the cue is a scam but there’s lots of fake listings of all kinds in FL lately. I sent the seller a message asking if he would send the cue to Pete for varification if the buyer so desired...

Agreed. None of what you hear, half of what you see. But, as someone pointed out, the "Wilie Hoppe" sig is on the forearm, soooooo... :)
 

West Point 1987

On the Hill, Out of Gas
Silver Member
Neve saw or hear of a Balabushka that had the Willei Hoppe makring on it...he used those blanks early on, but they didn't have the marking by the time he'd turned it...I'd guess this is a conversion done by someone contemporary, but not George...but I'll admit I'm not an expert. probably a nice hitter, though...
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Neve saw or hear of a Balabushka that had the Willei Hoppe makring on it...he used those blanks early on, but they didn't have the marking by the time he'd turned it...I'd guess this is a conversion done by someone contemporary, but not George...but I'll admit I'm not an expert. probably a nice hitter, though...

Many many moons ago, I had both a Rambow and a Hoppe. Both were solid as a rock, both made in the 50s.
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just my op here, but, notwithstanding what the Ebay listing says, I don't think *any* Hoppe cues were made by GB. I believe they were all Brunswick cues ( not sure who the actual cuemaker for Brunswick was... someone here knows, I'm sure, but I am 99.999999999% sure it wasn't GB ). Many cuemakers back then ( GB, Rambow, Palmer cues, Szambodi ) used Brunswick *blanks* which is why they were all somewhat similar in appearance, but, again, very sure GB never made any of the "Hoppe" cues. I could be wrong but if I am, I'm guessing someone here will call me on it.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. It is a bit confusing.

The Hoppe Pro cues were made from Titlists, and there were one piece Titlists as well as one piece Hoppe Titlists. All the same splice. All of them were made by Brunswick up until the late sixties when Schmelke and Adam began supplying them to Brunswick.

Who made them? Brunswick made them.

The cue in the ad was made from a Hoppe cue. It is a "conversion". Many of GBs cues would be called conversions if done today as he made them out of Bruswick cues. As far as anybody knows, GB never spliced a cue. Please note this is not meant to diminish his work at all.

The cue in the ad is a "conversion". Brunswick didn't make cues like that with Delrin butt caps.

The question is whether or not GB built that cue, not whether he made the splice.

Obviously it was converted from a Hoppe blank from Brunswick.

Who made the blank at Brunswick? I don't know who was working at Brunswick when that blank was made.

The bumper is wrapped in masking tape as GB did. GB did make cues with brass joint collars. But so many other features of the cue are off...and that's why the seller posts about them trying to explain them, including why the Hoppe signature is still on it.

Inside the butt cap of a GB you can see the markings from his forstner bit. This butt cap does seem to have those markings. But that is easily replicated. http://www.discountpoolcues.com/originalbalabushkarubberbumpers.htm

The two pilots on the shafts are different.

There is much more to see. But I am no expert.

I am sure the experts see things that the rest of us don't.

.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
I am not sure what you are trying to say. It is a bit confusing.

The Hoppe Pro cues were made from Titlists, and there were one piece Titlists as well as one piece Hoppe Titlists. All the same splice. All of them were made by Brunswick up until the late sixties when Schmelke and Adam began supplying them to Brunswick.

Who made them? Brunswick made them.

The cue in the ad was made from a Hoppe cue. It is a "conversion". Many of GBs cues would be called conversions if done today as he made them out of Bruswick cues. As far as anybody knows, GB never spliced a cue. Please note this is not meant to diminish his work at all.

The cue in the ad is a "conversion". Brunswick didn't make cues like that with Delrin butt caps.

The question is whether or not GB built that cue, not whether he made the splice.

Obviously it was converted from a Hoppe blank from Brunswick.

Who made the blank at Brunswick? I don't know who was working at Brunswick when that blank was made.

The bumper is wrapped in masking tape as GB did. GB did make cues with brass joint collars. But so many other features of the cue are off...and that's why the seller posts about them trying to explain them, including why the Hoppe signature is still on it.

Inside the butt cap of a GB you can see the markings from his forstner bit. This butt cap does seem to have those markings. But that is easily replicated. http://www.discountpoolcues.com/originalbalabushkarubberbumpers.htm

The two pilots on the shafts are different.

There is much more to see. But I am no expert.

I am sure the experts see things that the rest of us don't.

.


All interesting info and all info of which I had no idea. I guess my main point was, I don't think Balabushka would have produced a cue and left Hoppe's signature on it. Hopefully that makes sense. Could he have done that, left the sig on it? I suppose so but it desn't make any sense, considering his cues, at the time, were considered to be some of the finest ever made. As I wanted to be careful to say in my post, it was simply my opinion and that I was certain anyone who knows the details would call me on it if they felt GB actually did make a cue with the Hoppe sig still on it. Thanks again for all that info, really is fascinating stuff to me. So many players today have no idea of the history involved in cues. The *TINY* bit of info I have stored away, I learned from Rocky Tillis back in the mid 70s. I used to spend a lot of time with him at tournaments in Tampa, talking about cues. He's the one who told me about the Brunswick blanks and that most of the name cuemakers back then used them. Of course, after so many years ( and atrophying brain cells ), a lot of that info has fallen by the wayside! Thanks again.
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Send it to Pete Tascarella. He'll tell ya in a heartbeat. No offense to other posters.

That is what most would say, of course. Hard to argue with. That's what the seller should do. I sure as heck wouldn't want to buy it then send it.

If I were a player on the cue I would ask the seller to send it. If it is authenticated, I'll pay the associated costs. If not, then he would.

Alternatively an escrow arrangement could be done...

In any case, no harm in discussing the matter here.

.
 

Runner

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pass...

Thanks Chopdoc... you pretty much nailed it.

I didn't know there were early GB's with a brass joint, filing that away for future reference. What others said about the Hoppe sig being on there is the giveaway
to me... as Chop said, I think GB always used the raw Brunswick Titlist blank,
not a finished Hoppe cue.
And if he had used a Hoppe, I don't think he would have left the Hoppe sig on
there... ever.
Now... about that Golden Balabushka... jeez.
 
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