How league operators take more than they give

SBC...Wow! What an incredibly sexist statement. :angry: That says a lot about you as a person. I have a few "housewives" that I'd like to match you up with...you can set the bet as high as you like. Are you in?

BTW, jfyi, pool rooms have ALWAYS had a 'hierarchy' based on ability on the table. It was the same 100 years ago, and still exists today.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

SBC said:

Beating a housewife just isn't the same. Pool rooms should have a hierarchy based on ability on the table.

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We have both APA and TAP in our bigger room here (on different nights), and it works just fine, with many folks playing in both leagues. We've had nights where make up matches have had to be done due to weather issues, and the leagues cooperate nicely, sharing space. At least that's how it works here...

As usual, it's the people, not the league, that is the cause of any issue.

pvc lou...They don't know what time it is? That's laughable. One of the best players in your area (a national champion, and prominent poster here) has played in the APA for decades, with few complaints. I'd call that "knowing what time it is".

As someone else mentioned, APA National will rescind franchise agreements with LO's that either promote criminal behavior with team monies, or harass and threaten bar owners or room owners.

To the person who mentioned having to leave the national event early...the LO definitely kept the hotel money. You are only charged for days you actually stay in the hotel...whether the reservation was for a day, a week, or a month.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

pvc lou said:

So, all you guys dismissing his beef with the local APA stuff just don’t know what time it is. Syracuse is a real pool town, and without SBC and his pool family (including his lovely wife and his dad) who knows if that would be still so.

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So as a business man you are aloud to make money off the game but if they do they are all about the money and don’t care about Pool. Hmmm with that thought process I’m assuming you voted Democrat lol

Dear Scott Lee,

Stop it with that PC baloney and the baloney about you having some “housewives” you want to put in the box against SBC.
Firstly, he’ll try’em some, don’t worry.

Secondly, why did you put housewives in quotes? Looks like some hypocrisy to me Shame on you.

Scott Lee said:

SBC...Wow! What an incredibly sexist statement. :angry: That says a lot about you as a person. I have a few "housewives" that I'd like to match you up with...you can set the bet as high as you like. Are you in?



BTW, jfyi, pool rooms have ALWAYS had a 'hierarchy' based on ability on the table. It was the same 100 years ago, and still exists today.



Scott Lee

http://poolknowledge.com

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Scott Lee,

Ur a goofy goober. That’s all I got to say about that

Scott Lee said:

pvc lou...They don't know what time it is? That's laughable. One of the best players in your area (a national champion, and prominent poster here) has played in the APA for decades, with few complaints. I'd call that "knowing what time it is".



As someone else mentioned, APA National will rescind franchise agreements with LO's that either promote criminal behavior with team monies, or harass and threaten bar owners or room owners.



To the person who mentioned having to leave the national event early...the LO definitely kept the hotel money. You are only charged for days you actually stay in the hotel...whether the reservation was for a day, a week, or a month.



Scott Lee

http://poolknowledge.com

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C'mon guys cut the dude some slack. He may be a hypocrite but at least he is an honest hypocrite.

Saying he hates leagues and that they ruin pool but hey...i am gonna jump on the league train and have one or two in my venue. Since he is talking about tap league i wonder if he took lessons from Sam at tap.....talking down other leagues while building up your own agenda.

Scott Lee said:

pvc lou...They don't know what time it is? That's laughable. One of the best players in your area (a national champion, and prominent poster here) has played in the APA for decades, with few complaints. I'd call that "knowing what time it is".

As someone else mentioned, APA National will rescind franchise agreements with LO's that either promote criminal behavior with team monies, or harass and threaten bar owners or room owners.

To the person who mentioned having to leave the national event early...the LO definitely kept the hotel money. You are only charged for days you actually stay in the hotel...whether the reservation was for a day, a week, or a month.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

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That is what was assumed. That's why teams dropped out. Wasn't sure if there had to be a certain amount of advance notice to give or hotel would keep the money. Maybe that's just for deposit.

I own a Pool Hall in California. I have three league nights weekly with APA eight and nine ball in house on nine footers. At first I didn't want league play, i wanted my room to be a players room and social place to play. I thought, wrongly, that hosting tournaments was better for my customers and me. I reluctantly began APA league play and over time I found that the league players had more fun, spent more money and were easier to work with. Now the APA does have its faults and sometimes I wish I could change some of their rules and fee's structure but so far it works. League play is the future of pool in general and I don't see that changing any time soon. You just have to work with it and find common ground so that your players are treated fairly. BCA is OK but I find less participation overall. I do host a 14.1 BCA sanctioned league and it seems well accepted. So I guess what I'm saying is that as a bar or pool room owner has to have leagues in order to survive and with a strong owner the league will prosper and continue IF you manage it properly..

Baby Huey said:

I own a Pool Hall in California. I have three league nights weekly with APA eight and nine ball in house on nine footers. At first I didn't want league play, i wanted my room to be a players room and social place to play. I thought, wrongly, that hosting tournaments was better for my customers and me. I reluctantly began APA league play and over time I found that the league players had more fun, spent more money and were easier to work with. Now the APA does have its faults and sometimes I wish I could change some of their rules and fee's structure but so far it works. League play is the future of pool in general and I don't see that changing any time soon. You just have to work with it and find common ground so that your players are treated fairly. BCA is OK but I find less participation overall. I do host a 14.1 BCA sanctioned league and it seems well accepted. So I guess what I'm saying is that as a bar or pool room owner has to have leagues in order to survive and with a strong owner the league will prosper and continue IF you manage it properly..

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I have a room as well, and we have five divisions of in-house leagues. One is scotch doubles and the other four are four different skill levels.

Four player teams with a 2200 team cap

Four player teams with a 2000 team cap

Four player teams with a 1800 team cap

Four player teams with a 1600 team cap

Here are player stats for the top division. You can see from the Fargo Ratings and the table run #s (far right) that these are pretty good players. You may have to select "2200" division and go to player standings.

What we find is that if a team in the fun-night-out 1600 division gets a little more serious, they're looking to move up a division next session, even if their ratings are not there yet. This happens all the way up. Also, sometimes an upper team is in need of a low-rated player to meet the cap. And they pick the low-rated player who has shown a little more interest.

All this leads to good mobility and no unhealthy gap between "league players" and "players players."

http://lms.fargorate.com/PublicRepo...visionId=816d4435-715a-4040-8f85-a7f600149bd7

SBC said:

You guys keep it going......I'm done explaining myself.
Same guys keeping AZB on flame.

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There are many that disagree with you.... including other room owners. You'll just have to accept the fact that there will be some that have other opinions. You make some valid points. But so do others. You will prob do ok in a bigger city. But a pool hall in smaller cities won't stand a chance without leagues. Just not enough serious pool players to go around. Don't get all butt hurt about it and take your ball and go home.

SBC said:

You guys keep it going......I'm done explaining myself.
Same guys keeping AZB on flame.

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So basically what you're saying is that anyone who has had a different experience than you is wrong? It can only be the way it is in your world?

Funny. Somehow the past 10 years or so of playing APA locally here without all the issues that you describe were all just a dream, and not based in reality....who knew?

You likely have some legitimate issues, and that's unfortunate. But that doesn't mean that the situation that you've experienced is the reality everywhere else. Keep doing what's working for you, best of luck to you.

SBC said:

You guys keep it going......I'm done explaining myself.
Same guys keeping AZB on flame.

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You can go into any of the "league" threads, and see the same 2/3 people with their own agenda's.... Personally, I've seen enough of the greed driven LO's.



It's your room, keep it under your control.
Your players will let you know whether or not your on the right track.

Baby Huey said:

I own a Pool Hall in California. I have three league nights weekly with APA eight and nine ball in house on nine footers. At first I didn't want league play, i wanted my room to be a players room and social place to play. I thought, wrongly, that hosting tournaments was better for my customers and me. I reluctantly began APA league play and over time I found that the league players had more fun, spent more money and were easier to work with. Now the APA does have its faults and sometimes I wish I could change some of their rules and fee's structure but so far it works. League play is the future of pool in general and I don't see that changing any time soon. You just have to work with it and find common ground so that your players are treated fairly. BCA is OK but I find less participation overall. I do host a 14.1 BCA sanctioned league and it seems well accepted. So I guess what I'm saying is that as a bar or pool room owner has to have leagues in order to survive and with a strong owner the league will prosper and continue IF you manage it properly..

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That's exactly right. Good post.

APA is a plague upon pool.

I've seen these kind of thug tactics before. Sure, it's their business right to do that. But it is very ugly and very destructive.

I have to disagree. I used to think the same thing. Ask yourself who would organize players if we didn't have the pool league system and that answer is very few room owners which is exactly why the pool league system exists. Room owners focused on alcohol in my state and the leagues moved in and very few have house leagues.

I saw one room in NC that had 200-220 league players in their rooms from Sunday night to Tuesday and they failed to find things to sell them so the average spending of those clients of 4 to 5 dollars per person a week. Had they worked that crowd a little they could have raised that average to 7 to 10, now wouldnt that have been nice.

Grilled Cheese said:

APA is a plague upon pool.

I've seen these kind of thug tactics before. Sure, it's their business right to do that. But it is very ugly and very destructive.

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Grilled Cheese said:

Sure, it's their business right to do that. But it is very ugly and very destructive.

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Actually it is not. They get to make some decisions but ultimately they are part of franchise. As such they are to abide by the regulations and agreements they signed. None of which allows them to do anything to harm the APA name.

As pointed out, bad LOs can and have had their franchises taken away. If you don't like what they are doing in your area, then report them to the apa office. Ultimately leagues are going to be the only thing that keeps pool halls and many bars open and being that the apa is the largest and caters toe most people it would be unwise to not work with them.

As in most failures, whether it be business, marriage, friendships or even pool, egos will ultimately be the cause.

pvc lou said:

There is no question that SBC loves pool, as well as his partner Mike. They BUSTED their butts last summer to put up that room within 2-3 months and people were coming in to play during construction.

So, all you guys dismissing his beef with the local APA stuff just don’t know what time it is. Syracuse is a real pool town, and without SBC and his pool family (including his lovely wife and his dad) who knows if that would be still so.

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I dont care for some one trying to beat down the competition while promoting their own agenda. I am a card carrying member of tap....along with apa and usapl. When Sam at tap gets on here brow beating other leagues while tooting his own horn I tell him the same thing I told scb.


I followed his thread when he was rebuilding the room. I also followed the thread about action matches in his room during turning stone. Irs fine to be passionate about your business.....its fine to be proud of what he accomplished in a short time..... Its fine to come on here and toot tour own horn....its fine to state there is new competition in town. Although it's a little bit of a reach to proclaim you now own the racetrack lol.

But dont expect it to be fine when you come on here stating you don't like leagues ....they ruin pool and then do an about face starting you are either going to start an in house league or host tap and continually brow beat what is now apparently going to be your competition with out catching some flack from people that dont agree with his viewpoint.

Although I dont agree with his viewpoint I ended every post saying I hope he is successful. I don't like hearing of any pool halls closing...even ones that apparently don't cater to players like me.

Btw...whats a real pool town ?

The way all hotel reservations work, regardless of length of time reserved, is that the first night is guaranteed with a credit card (either yours, or possibly your LO, if they made the reservations). Once you check in, usually a credit card is required, and they charge you by the day. You pay the bill when you check out, whether you stayed the entire time, or not. This just happened a couple weeks ago at the DCC. I had reserved 10 nights, and only used 8...which is all I had to pay for. So, under that scenario, if your LO made and paid for your rooms...he kept the money from the extra days that your team didn't use. If that's what happened, you have a legitimate gripe, that you should take up with APA National in St. Louis.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

buckshotshoey said:

That is what was assumed. That's why teams dropped out. Wasn't sure if there had to be a certain amount of advance notice to give or hotel would keep the money. Maybe that's just for deposit.

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