I've been watching alot of pro games lately, and I've been comparing there patterns to the way I would shoot, and I've noticed that my patterns are alot less complex (using less rails), I draw alot more and use alot less rails to get out but it works good for me, I dunno if this has to do with the bar tables being smaller, I havnt played on 9 footers that much. But should I start trying to use the rails more to take my game to the next level? any advice would be much appreciated thanks!
Do I draw to much?
- Thread starter Scottlucasi19
- Start date
Scott I do exactly the same thing as you when I shoot pool I don't use the rail at all to try and run I just use stun, screw, sidespin and any other type of side there is to move around the table.
I would worry about it if it works for you do it and don't let anyone tell you different unless its a pro like archer, strickland, efren or bustamante LoL
I would worry about it if it works for you do it and don't let anyone tell you different unless its a pro like archer, strickland, efren or bustamante LoL
JMHO: I think the difference is a lot of the pros play position in such a way (mostly anyway) that the white comes of the last rail "in line" witt their next position. Meaning that the speed of the cueball isn't that important, two inches more or less doesn't really change the angle of the next shot. Controlling the speed of a "direct" draw shot is IMO a lot more difficult than that of a stun shot with a rail.
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Scottlucasi19, I play the same as you. One thing I've noticed is that with the standard bar tables I play on, cushions can be eratic, and controling the cue ball with draw, rather than using the cushions, takes this problem away. If everyone had perfect tables, this wouldn't be an issue, but how rare are those in most locations.
Daniel
Daniel
which way do you have to shoot the hardest?
Which way do you have to shoot the hardest? The closer your object ball is to pocket speed the better off you usually are. Maybe I'm just lazy but I believe in moving the cue ball into position with the least effort possible. That sometimes means draw and sometimes means letting it run. As someone else mentioned, if one route calls for pinpoint placement of the cue ball and the other allows for a little margin it is smarter to play the position with a little margin unless it jeopardizes making the object ball. Easy to focus so much on getting perfect position that you compromise the main purpose of your shot.
Hu
Which way do you have to shoot the hardest? The closer your object ball is to pocket speed the better off you usually are. Maybe I'm just lazy but I believe in moving the cue ball into position with the least effort possible. That sometimes means draw and sometimes means letting it run. As someone else mentioned, if one route calls for pinpoint placement of the cue ball and the other allows for a little margin it is smarter to play the position with a little margin unless it jeopardizes making the object ball. Easy to focus so much on getting perfect position that you compromise the main purpose of your shot.
Hu
Scottlucasi19 said:
True ...
The above is true. What should be done, whether by stroke and/or rails,
is to use 'natural' angles for getting shape. It makes the game easier,
and is the best way to teach new players. And good players never
leave the cueball on the rail, they always have an angle.
JohnnyP said:
The above is true. What should be done, whether by stroke and/or rails,
is to use 'natural' angles for getting shape. It makes the game easier,
and is the best way to teach new players. And good players never
leave the cueball on the rail, they always have an angle.
Just as an anecdote:
The biggest problem snooker players have when they take on 9-ball is that they tend to try to get straight on all the balls, and then require using force stuns and draw shots for position on their next ball.
The better 9-ball pattern makers I've seen use the rails and the angles very well. It is worth studying their methods, and probably adapting many of them.
The biggest problem snooker players have when they take on 9-ball is that they tend to try to get straight on all the balls, and then require using force stuns and draw shots for position on their next ball.
The better 9-ball pattern makers I've seen use the rails and the angles very well. It is worth studying their methods, and probably adapting many of them.
There is no need to play position if you already have position. Buddy Hall has some of the best cueball control the game has ever seen. Even though he is highly skilled in that department, he keeps it simple because he plays the percentages.
Alright thanks guys, but why would it be better to start using rails when i can get out fine without them? Is using rails better for the long run if so then how? again thanks for the advice
Learn to use the rails. Learn where the cue ball will go after a shot using the rails. Learn Dr. Dave's 30 and 90 degree rules.
Many times you can go "forwards" rather than "backwards". Several ways to do the same thing.
So look at your shot, ask yourself "Where will the cue ball go?". Figure it out using the 30 and 90 degree rules. Then when it hits a rail, angle in = angle out. So will come off the rail at same angle (mirror) as going in.
So figure out in advance where that cue ball will go. Say to yourself "It will go here", point to lines on table. At first you will be off, but if you ask yourself "Where will the cue ball go" before each shot, you will learn more and more about this.
Do the above during practice. Then during a tournament, use what you think will work best for you. What you are most comfortable doing. If drawing will work better for you, draw away!
Dr. Daves...
(Look for 30 and 90 degree rules.)
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/index.html
Many times you can go "forwards" rather than "backwards". Several ways to do the same thing.
So look at your shot, ask yourself "Where will the cue ball go?". Figure it out using the 30 and 90 degree rules. Then when it hits a rail, angle in = angle out. So will come off the rail at same angle (mirror) as going in.
So figure out in advance where that cue ball will go. Say to yourself "It will go here", point to lines on table. At first you will be off, but if you ask yourself "Where will the cue ball go" before each shot, you will learn more and more about this.
Do the above during practice. Then during a tournament, use what you think will work best for you. What you are most comfortable doing. If drawing will work better for you, draw away!
Dr. Daves...
(Look for 30 and 90 degree rules.)
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/index.html
The rails are a poolplayers friend. The cueball wants to roll forward, so by letting it run, you are working with the cueball, not fighting against it.
As another poster mentioned, stroke has so many variables, the rails are extremely predictable (on a good table). There's generally a larger margin of error when going to the rails then trying to draw into perfect position. You can use less english to move the cueball if you use the rails, as rails exaggerate english.
When there's a question if the cueball can be stunned and maintain shape, sometimes it's easier to just let the cueball roll to the rail and play the higher percentage shot. Using one or multiple rails is a great way to kill the speed of the cueball on tricky positional plays.
It's so easy to determine if a scratch is imminent, as the above poster mention, the 30 and 90 degree rule. There really is no logical reason to avoid the rails, only flawed theories and irrational fears.
As another poster mentioned, stroke has so many variables, the rails are extremely predictable (on a good table). There's generally a larger margin of error when going to the rails then trying to draw into perfect position. You can use less english to move the cueball if you use the rails, as rails exaggerate english.
When there's a question if the cueball can be stunned and maintain shape, sometimes it's easier to just let the cueball roll to the rail and play the higher percentage shot. Using one or multiple rails is a great way to kill the speed of the cueball on tricky positional plays.
It's so easy to determine if a scratch is imminent, as the above poster mention, the 30 and 90 degree rule. There really is no logical reason to avoid the rails, only flawed theories and irrational fears.
definitely learn to use the rails, plain and simple you wont always be able to use draw, theres going to be times you have to go another route. I used to use alot of draw and seldom any top, now i use it all, the more well rounded you are the better off your game will be. I try to pay attention more and more to the "attack line".......concept talked about in "the pool players edge", bascially you draw a line thru the next ball you want to play, and then if you can you want to bring the cue ball around kind of on that line, which gives you larger margins of error and still be in shape. Sometimes I will go 2 or 3 rails now to get on that line where a year ago i might have just tried to draw the ball back 3 feet, the difference is maybe id have to draw exactly 3 foot to be right.....2 foot or 4 foot and i was completely off line, but coming in on the attack line i can be off by 2 or 3 foot and im still perfect.
Now those make since, I've always wondered why the older players at my hall dont use much draw and hardly ever jack up on the cue and they shoot with no wasted energy and use alot of rails, and the younger guys (like myself) were always using extreme low right and left english. ThanksThat's the reason older athletes can still compete with younger ones in any sport. The younger athletes have a lot to learn about harnessing momentum and energy in their favor. The older players have learned their lessons and have found the path of least resistance.Scottlucasi19 said:
Ive also pondered this... i believe all the above is true, but one minor thing was left out: When you use the rails, your less likely to end up on one. Me and my friend agreed that always drawing and using side spin etc, your way more likely to end up with the cueball on the rail, greatly reducing your options. If you play the cueball into a rail, given you hit it at the right speed.. it will really never end up back on another rail unless u want it to. I gathered thats why you hardly ever see any pro's draw straight back more than a 10" or so, but this isnt as important as the above mentioned points, of how its way more predictable than trying to stroke the ball everywhere. Play your lines.
It's very important to play shots that give you the easiest path to get on the next ball, even if it makes the shot a little tougher. Usually this means using at least one rail. If you have to work the cue ball, you are more likely to be unsure of your decision and split in focus. Even if you have an easy shot, you can still miss it if you are not positive you will hit it right. Playing for good angles makes the game seem easier, allows you to get in rythm, and helps you keep out of trouble by recognizing 2 balls ahead.
Scottlucasi19 said:
If you can really "get out fine without them" then you're already doing things right, but I'm guessing you're not perfect every time. I'm guessing you hit a shot now and then and kick yourself because you missed your position and got yourself in a bind. I'm guessing you miss a shot now and then because it's a tough shot, when you could have possibly left yourself an easier one.
Look at the times you miss position. If you're practicing, stop and set up the shot again so you can work on it. Try different routes on the shot you messed up until you can find one that you can not only regularly make good shape, but one that seems almost hard to miss shape on. Find the routes that you can make with maximum consistency, and if you're still drawing all the time and not using many rails, fine. But you may find there are times when following three rails is actually more consistent than drawing one rail.
-Andrew