Push out 9 ball

pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Pushout said:
We played you could push out as long as no foul had been committed on the previous shot. Any two fouls gave incoming player ball in hand anywhere. We played any two, I know in other parts of the country it had to be two fouls by the same player but never even saw it played that way, personally. Scratches were behind the head string so the spot shot was a must learn. All balls in the kitchen, closest one to the string was spotted on the foot spot. We played mostly races. Was NOT played in ring games.
Click to expand...

I played a LOT of two-foul around the continent...
...but I would not play “any two fouls”....
...it had to be “two fouls by the same player”

The first way gives too much control by the first guy to foul...
...which seems to me to be against gaming logic.

I also played “fire at everything”...not a very sophisticated way of playing...
...but I enjoyed it...:smile2::smile2::smile2:
 
Gunn_Slinger

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pt109 said:
I played a LOT of two-foul around the continent...
...but I would not play “any two fouls”....
...it had to be “two fouls by the same player”

The first way gives too much control by the first guy to foul...
...which seems to me to be against gaming logic.

I also played “fire at everything”...not a very sophisticated way of playing...
...but I enjoyed it...:smile2::smile2::smile2:
Click to expand...

The problem with playing pushout the way you say you played it is the following:
I pushout, then you pushout, then I push, then you push,etc.
I played at Beenies room all through the 70's. Some players would start playing your way.Most didn't because of the problem of push, push, push,etc.
The only way that made sense was the player who commits the 2nd consecutive
give up BIH. Every player played that way in the 70's.
 
HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gunn_Slinger said:
The problem with playing pushout the way you say you played it is the following:
I pushout, then you pushout, then I push, then you push,etc.
I played at Beenies room all through the 70's. Some players would start playing your way.Most didn't because of the problem of push, push, push,etc.
The only way that made sense was the player who commits the 2nd consecutive
give up BIH. Every player played that way in the 70's.
Click to expand...

I've never played where you could "push out" from a "push out", by either player.

We played:

Player 1 pushes.

Player 2 has the option of shooting or passing it back. If Player 2 shoots and "fouls" by not hitting the ball and/or not contacting a rail afterward, scratches, etc., then Player 1 has BIH. Player 2 does not have an option of pushing out from the original push by Player 1.

If Player 2 passes it back to Player 1, then Player 1 has to hit the ball the same as described above. Player 1 doesn't have an option to "re-push" until after a legal shot has been made by one of the players.

Some people played that if there was a "scratch" (cue ball in a pocket) then the incoming player had to shoot from the kitchen. If the object ball was in the kitchen, it was spotted. You weren't "intentionally" allowed to shoot the cue ball straight into a pocket in order to put your opponent in this position. The cue ball had to "scratch" after contacting the object ball.

It has been a LONG time since I could ever find anybody to play this type of pool, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy. Feel free to correct me or add additional rules.
 
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Gunn_Slinger

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
HawaiianEye said:
I've never played where you could "push out" from a "push out", by either player.

We played:

Player 1 pushes.

Player 2 has the option of shooting or passing it back. If Player 2 shoots and "fouls" by not hitting the ball and/or not contacting a rail afterward, scratches, etc., then Player 1 has BIH. Player 2 does not have an option of pushing out from the original push by Player 1.

If Player 2 passes it back to Player 1, then Player 1 has to hit the ball the same as described above. Player 1 doesn't have an option to "re-push" until after a legal shot has been made by one of the players.

Some people played that if there was a "scratch" (cue ball in a pocket) then the incoming player had to shoot from the kitchen. If the object ball was in the kitchen, it was spotted. You weren't "intentionally" allowed to shoot the cue ball straight into a pocket in order to put your opponent in this position. The cue ball had to "scratch" after contacting the object ball.

It has been a LONG time since I could ever find anybody to play this type of pool, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy. Feel free to correct me or add additional rules.
Click to expand...

I agree. I was responding to pt109. If you play 2 consecutive fouls by the same player, that allows the push-push-push-push, etc. Nobody played that way in my day ( 60's 70's ). I did play one guy in the 70's that tried the push-push-push-push. I unscrewed during the 1st game.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
HawaiianEye said:
I've never played where you could "push out" from a "push out", by either player.

We played:

Player 1 pushes.

Player 2 has the option of shooting or passing it back. If Player 2 shoots and "fouls" by not hitting the ball and/or not contacting a rail afterward, scratches, etc., then Player 1 has BIH. Player 2 does not have an option of pushing out from the original push by Player 1.

It has been a LONG time since I could ever find anybody to play this type of pool, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy. Feel free to correct me or add additional rules.
Click to expand...

That is silly.

Player 1 played poor shape and then gets to better his position
1. By relocating the cb, and potentially other ball/s, and
B- putting player 2 in a position where he must return the shot, or take on the risk of giving up Bih for a lesser infraction than that which caused the scenario?

I see why nobody plays that way...sounds like a big scam by the 'better' player to gain an additional advantage.

Ball in hand after and miss is prob the best way to play, for a real test.
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Gunn_Slinger said:
The problem with playing pushout the way you say you played it is the following:
I pushout, then you pushout, then I push, then you push,etc.
I played at Beenies room all through the 70's. Some players would start playing your way.Most didn't because of the problem of push, push, push,etc.
The only way that made sense was the player who commits the 2nd consecutive
give up BIH. Every player played that way in the 70's.
Click to expand...

HawaiianEye said:
I've never played where you could "push out" from a "push out", by either player.

We played:

Player 1 pushes.

Player 2 has the option of shooting or passing it back. If Player 2 shoots and "fouls" by not hitting the ball and/or not contacting a rail afterward, scratches, etc., then Player 1 has BIH. Player 2 does not have an option of pushing out from the original push by Player 1.

If Player 2 passes it back to Player 1, then Player 1 has to hit the ball the same as described above. Player 1 doesn't have an option to "re-push" until after a legal shot has been made by one of the players.

Some people played that if there was a "scratch" (cue ball in a pocket) then the incoming player had to shoot from the kitchen. If the object ball was in the kitchen, it was spotted. You weren't "intentionally" allowed to shoot the cue ball straight into a pocket in order to put your opponent in this position. The cue ball had to "scratch" after contacting the object ball.

It has been a LONG time since I could ever find anybody to play this type of pool, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy. Feel free to correct me or add additional rules.
Click to expand...

Gunn_Slinger said:
I agree. I was responding to pt109. If you play 2 consecutive fouls by the same player, that allows the push-push-push-push, etc. Nobody played that way in my day ( 60's 70's ). I did play one guy in the 70's that tried the push-push-push-push. I unscrewed during the 1st game.
Click to expand...

You guys must have played straight pool....the fouls you make belong to you only.
If you foul, NO matter what your opponent does, you’re on one foul....
..he can run 80 balls, when he misses, you’re still on one foul.

This is the same sense in two fouls by the same player...I am allowed one foul...
...why should your foul take that privilege away from me?

When you foul, you’re on one foul till you take YOURSELF off that foul...or until the game ends.

Why should a player TAKE A FOUL and be able to push to his favorite tough shot...
...and you have to shoot it or let him shoot it?
The onus should always be on the first player to take a foul.
 
HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Black-Balled said:
That is silly.

Player 1 played poor shape and then gets to better his position
1. By relocating the cb, and potentially other ball/s, and
B- putting player 2 in a position where he must return the shot, or take on the risk of giving up Bih for a lesser infraction than that which caused the scenario?

I see why nobody plays that way...sounds like a big scam by the 'better' player to gain an additional advantage.

Ball in hand after and miss is prob the best way to play, for a real test.
Click to expand...

I guess you don't play one-pocket, if you don't like "moves".

Ask ANY "old school" player which game they prefer.

Earl, Keith, Buddy, CJ, etc., etc.

I will guarantee that almost EVERY ONE of them will say they prefer this game to one-foul BIH.
 
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Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
HawaiianEye said:
I guess you don't play one-pocket, if you don't like "moves".

Ask ANY "old school" player which game they prefer.

Earl, Keith, Buddy, CJ, etc., etc.

I will guarantee that almost EVERY ONE of them will say they prefer this game to one-foul BIH.
Click to expand...

I am actually a 1p master.

I dont hear you lobbying for a push option in 1p. Sure would be helpful, if I don't like what I show up for.
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Gunn_Slinger said:
The problem with playing pushout the way you say you played it is the following:
I pushout, then you pushout, then I push, then you push,etc.
I played at Beenies room all through the 70's. Some players would start playing your way.Most didn't because of the problem of push, push, push,etc.
The only way that made sense was the player who commits the 2nd consecutive
give up BIH. Every player played that way in the 70's.
Click to expand...

I played lots of nine ball.....two fouls by the same player...it was never a deal breaker.

What you’re not getting is there is no stalemate possible....
You push....you’re on one foul
I push back....I’m on one foul
Now....whoever shoots next is under the gun...if he scratches, he gives up BIH

Where’s the problem
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pt109 said:
I played lots of nine ball.....two fouls by the same player...it was never a deal breaker.

What you’re not getting is there is no stalemate possible....
You push....you’re on one foul
I push back....I’m on one foul
Now....whoever shoots next is under the gun...if he scratches, he gives up BIH

Where’s the problem
Click to expand...

That makes sense. The initial pusher shouldn't be able to move the ball AND put the incomer into more danger than the pusher faced.
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Black-Balled said:
That makes sense. The initial pusher shouldn't be able to move the ball AND put the incomer into more danger than the pusher faced.
Click to expand...

Exactly, Walter....the first to push will push to his favorite tough shot...
...the initial foul should not get the advantage....
...so the second guy pushes to his favorite shot...
...everybody has to think a little harder when they push.

I liked this part of the game...I got pretty good at nicking the ball and trapping him...
...and now he’s still on one....when you foul, you gotta get yourself off that two-foul...
...I’m not gonna help you
 
Gunn_Slinger

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pt109 said:
I played lots of nine ball.....two fouls by the same player...it was never a deal breaker.

What you’re not getting is there is no stalemate possible....
You push....you’re on one foul
I push back....I’m on one foul
Now....whoever shoots next is under the gun...if he scratches, he gives up BIH

Where’s the problem
Click to expand...
.

In your first post, you said the the player who pushes first had the upper hand.
Now , in your rules , by that logic , the second player who pushes has the upper hand.
I don't see that your rules are any better that the rules that players in my day used.
In 8 years of playing app. 300 nights a year at Beenies, I never saw anyone
play with your rules. Beenies had the best players in the country come thru
every month , plus road agents and local short stops.
Someone always has the best of it no matter what rules you use,
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
HawaiianEye said:
Do you get BIH in one-pocket if your opponent "pushes" to an intentional foul for a safety?
Click to expand...

You will have to answer that one for us, as it was you who claimed there was a push in 1p.

There isn't one, which is my point: if a push makes sense in a pool game, it should make sense in all pool games. But it doesn't make sense, which is why it doesn't belong.
 
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