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Aiming systems are OVER RATED!!!
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Big C
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Post Aiming systems are OVER RATED!!! - 11-29-2007, 12:38 PM

Not trying to piss on anyone's cornflakes, just trying to make a point here. There are so many posts regarding aiming systems. For the purpose of what? How in the world does anyone expect to pockets balls using some arbitrary aiming system without a fundamentally sound stroke? All these aiming systems do what they were intended and that is to give the shooter some frame of reference to help take the guess work out of the shot. I think if people focused more on their body alignment and setup before the shot, then a lot of the aiming will just take care of itself. Also, the finish position of your head, backhand and cuetip will tell you a lot about why you missed the shot.
I'm not a BCA instructor, but I did learn from one of the best. If you haven't taken a lesson from one, I highly recommend that you do. You can learn more from them in the first 15 minutes about your stroke that you can in 15 years with trial and error. Magical cues and spiders only do one thing and that's fleecing you out of your hard earned money. Ok, I'm done. Thank you for reading. Now go beat someone with a stick!

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seymore15074
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11-29-2007, 12:52 PM

I'm convinced those threads are just to argue. They have absolutely no benefit to any ball making for a single person that participates.

Some just want to choose a word that was used, and "show" that they are more intelligent by saying that it doesn't mean what is being said. What is being said must be wrong because they use the word differently. English is a complex language that involves interpretation, not right and wrong...


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11-29-2007, 01:02 PM

If you have a perfect stroke but are aiming into a rail, will it help? If you have absolute dead aim, but your stroke is a little off, can you still pocket balls? Which would you rather have, be able to aim and work on a couple tweaks here and there on your stroke, or have a beautiful stroke and not be able to use it for aiming? Enough said.
  
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11-29-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunoutalloverU
If you have a perfect stroke but are aiming into a rail, will it help? If you have absolute dead aim, but your stroke is a little off, can you still pocket balls? Which would you rather have, be able to aim and work on a couple tweaks here and there on your stroke, or have a beautiful stroke and not be able to use it for aiming? Enough said.
If I could magically fix one or the other? I'd definitely pick the perfect stroke and mechanics. Aiming (open shots, not including kicks, banks, combos) is the easy part, IMO.

Last edited by Cuebacca; 11-29-2007 at 01:20 PM.
  
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11-29-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C
... All these aiming systems do what they were intended and that is to give the shooter some frame of reference to help take the guess work out of the shot. ...
I agree with this, but then the question -- for instructors and those interested in the semi-technical aspects of the game -- becomes, which systems are worth teaching to beginners who need a framework to help organize their experience? I think such a system should be technically sound.

Sadly, few posters here have retained enough of their high school geometry and physics to make any useful analysis of the various systems. For an example, look at the recently proposed banking system which works for balls only along a single line on the table but was claimed to work for most shots. That system was so flawed that many could see it had no chance to work.

Move on to something like Hal Mix's "nearest point to the pocket / farthest point from the pocket" aiming system, and many people have a hard time seeing why it is broken -- you still get reports that it works nicely and has no apparent flaw. The reality is that if followed exactly, it will always undercut the ball.


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11-29-2007, 02:10 PM

[QUOTE=Bob Jewett]

Sadly, few posters here have retained enough of their high school geometry and physics to make any useful analysis of the various systems. For an example, look at the recently proposed banking system which works for balls only along a single line on the table but was claimed to work for most shots. That system was so flawed that many could see it had no chance to work.



Bob, Yes a great way to get action, I couldnt wait for someone like you to say NAH... Care to see this in person? Id be happy to educate you.. for a small fee ofcourse, how about bank for bank, 100$ a ball. All I will use is My "Flawed System" shouldnt be any worries right? oh, yes, Long rail and short rail, 1 rail banks, from anywhere.


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11-29-2007, 02:21 PM

How would you prove that you are shooting the ball to the point that the aiming system predicts? Seems like a more fair bet is to describe your aiming system, post the money, and let an unbiased geometrician evaluate the system to determine who wins the bet.

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11-29-2007, 02:36 PM

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All I will use is My "Flawed System"
How could anybody confirm that?

pj
chgo
  
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11-29-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson
How could anybody confirm that?

pj
chgo


you cant its a hustlers bet....

Some people think they are sooooo smart, and dont realize a hustle.. Its amazing that only the SMARTEST guy really said anything negitive.



lol...Yes, im a bad, bad man..


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11-29-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C
Now go beat someone with a stick!
Hmmm, Sounds like a Tom Simpson student. Good Instructor.


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11-29-2007, 03:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson
How could anybody confirm that?

pj
chgo
Simple. Get him to commit to a particular contact point (which is clearly given by the system) and then put up two blocker balls that let the cue ball hit the object ball only on that spot. But I don't think he'll accept the action that way.


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11-29-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C
Not trying to piss on anyone's cornflakes, just trying to make a point here. There are so many posts regarding aiming systems. For the purpose of what? How in the world does anyone expect to pockets balls using some arbitrary aiming system without a fundamentally sound stroke? I think if people focused more on their body alignment and setup before the shot, then a lot of the aiming will just take care of itself. Also, the finish position of your head, backhand and cuetip will tell you a lot about why you missed the shot.
I'm not a BCA instructor, but I did learn from one of the best. If you haven't taken a lesson from one, I highly recommend that you do. You can learn more from them in the first 15 minutes about your stroke that you can in 15 years with trial and error. Magical cues and spiders only do one thing and that's fleecing you out of your hard earned money. Ok, I'm done. Thank you for reading. Now go beat someone with a stick!

Simplicity is the ultimate form of sophistication.
You view is a zero sum game. If it is true that a bad stroke will ruin any aiming system (which it is) then it is also true that a faulty aiming system will ruin the best stroke in the world.

And your comment that a proper body alignment and set up is a portion of the aiming process (which it is) then the WAY you allign your body and set up over the shot can't just be random or accidental. Rather, it has to be purposeful.

Quote:
All these aiming systems do what they were intended and that is to give the shooter some frame of reference to help take the guess work out of the shot.
I agree with you completely and therefore, we seem to agree that an aiming system is an extremely important COMPONENT of successful shot making which can be aided or negated by other components.

Regards,
Jim
  
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11-29-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunoutalloverU
If you have a perfect stroke but are aiming into a rail, will it help? If you have absolute dead aim, but your stroke is a little off, can you still pocket balls? Which would you rather have, be able to aim and work on a couple tweaks here and there on your stroke, or have a beautiful stroke and not be able to use it for aiming? Enough said.
TAP...TAP...TAP.

And I would add that a discussion of something as fundamental as aiming is highly useful EVEN IF Poster A expresses an opinion that is wrong. He/she will certainly be made aware of the error and the rest of the readership will learn from that exercise.

Forums are interesting places. Their very reason for existing is the sharing of ideas...but when ideas are shared with which some don't agree then those folks consider the ideas a waste of time...and so it goes.
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11-29-2007, 03:24 PM

[QUOTE=SPINDOKTOR]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett

Sadly, few posters here have retained enough of their high school geometry and physics to make any useful analysis of the various systems. For an example, look at the recently proposed banking system which works for balls only along a single line on the table but was claimed to work for most shots. That system was so flawed that many could see it had no chance to work.



Bob, Yes a great way to get action, I couldnt wait for someone like you to say NAH... Care to see this in person? Id be happy to educate you.. for a small fee ofcourse, how about bank for bank, 100$ a ball. All I will use is My "Flawed System" shouldnt be any worries right? oh, yes, Long rail and short rail, 1 rail banks, from anywhere.
AHAAAAA! The gauntlet is dropped. Put your slide rules and compasses away and bring cash to the table! I love it. I don't care who is right or wrong...I just like the stones!! TAP TAP

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11-29-2007, 03:27 PM

If I had one wish that could come true it would be to hit the exact point of contact that I want everytime... I guess I would take a perfect stroke and then work on my aiming.
  
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