“Flip For Break” Can the toss winner pass?

trob said:
Read it a long time ago and man with all the reading and pool instruction I’ve read and watched in 35 years of playing I can’t remember lol but it stuck with me.
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I think it's wrong for good players. You may want to look at some of AtLarge's eight ball stats.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you're dealing with loose racks (wooden triangle) and tight pockets and opponent racks, the break at nine ball can be a disadvantage.

Back in the 1980s Pat Fleming did the statistics for matches in major tournaments on the pro tour. The percentage of "breaker wins" was under 50%. That means that not only was the break not an advantage, it was a disadvantage to the average player on the pro tour. Of course the break is somewhat different now, but if a player is under 700 and doesn't have a wired ball in the rack, have him break.
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There's probably a bias in most people's opinions. We watch the very top players who are likely to win in any situation, breaking first included, and think breaking is always an advantage. Very interesting discussion.

There were a lot of tribal ideas in sports that the quants put math on and changed. It's why the NBA shoots so many 3 point shots now. It seemed like a high percentage 2 point shot was better, but not when the numbers were run.
 
Renegade4006 said:
Why would a player give up the advantage of having the break?? Are there certain situations where it would be a benefit to do so??
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If you are playing a much weaker player then by all means give them the break. If they don't make a ball you get to pick the better set. If they do make a ball they will run a few and turn a much simpler layout over to you. In 50 years of playing only twice has an opponent broke and ran the table then told me it was their first ever break and run. Can it happen? Sure. Is it likely? Nope.
 
eg9327 said:
If you are playing a much weaker player then by all means give them the break. If they don't make a ball you get to pick the better set. If they do make a ball they will run a few and turn a much simpler layout over to you. In 50 years of playing only twice has an opponent broke and ran the table then told me it was their first ever break and run. Can it happen? Sure. Is it likely? Nope.
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I would never give away the break here. Many adopt the Chinese-8 style draw break, and are not necessarily proficient at it, and it is a total pain in the ass to deal with. Leaving the ball on the top cushion with draw. Especially when most players are competent potters. You have no shot, then leave all the balls on.
Played a friend of mine (who is predominately a snooker player), and experienced this frustration last night. Safe from the break, I miss and he has the potting power to clean the table, generally without any really attention to shape or how this works on a pool table. Potting his way out of trouble, or leaving the ball in all kinds of disgusting places when he misses lol basically, how I would play a year ago when I first started playing. I won 2 sets to 1, but the 1 was where the money was... 🤣
Will have to shrink his ego tonight when we play again haha

Take the break, and believe you can run the table ;)
 
Flakeandrun said:
I play in some alternate break tourneys. It's the only time I say "have at it"

I like to imagine it gives some psych out benefits, but probably not.
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Edit: Lost the top of my post. This is assuming alternate breaks.

The issue with giving the other player the first break is if the set goes hill/hill you are giving him the break then too. Known or unknown player to me, I know a lot more about how they are playing that match by the time we get to hill/hill. I want control of the break.

This is assuming the usual odd number of games you are racing to. I don't care a whole lot who has the first break unless it is winner breaks. I care a whole lot more who has the last break. I want to be in control.

Hu
 
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