“Less Lucky” Version of 10 Ball?

[dreamhouse]

I’ve been playing a lot of 10 ball lately because I enjoy calling shots. That takes a significant amount of luck out of the game (as an amateur player).

However, there’s still plenty of rolls to be had.

For example, if I rattle an object ball and my cue ball unintentionally lands wedged behind a group of other balls, brutally snookering my opponent, I’m probably going to get paid off with ball in hand - even though I was the one that made the mistake.

In 10 ball, if the shooter slops in a ball, the incoming player has the choice to either take the shot or pass it back. I’ve considered an additional rule that if the shooter misses their called shot, the incoming player also can choose to either take the shot or pass it back. This negates the lucky leaves where a player gets paid off for a miss.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this or a variation?

EDIT: Realized from some of your posts that this does exist as “Call Shot/Call Safe” 10 ball. Thanks!

 

[Frosty]

, yeahhhhh, this has been done with 10 ball by the pro game and then abandoned because it’s as interesting as watching paint dry. You like calling shots? Then play straight pool or Banks. I mean, truthfully, amongst skilled players, not just pros, but A level and shortstop amateurs as well, how often does “slop or luck” really come up? It’s my observation that those that cry about “luck” in rotation games are those that generally are looking for something to blame a failure or loss on. YMMV

 

[Jaden]

I’ve been playing a lot of 10 ball lately because I enjoy calling shots. That’s takes a significant amount of luck out of the game. However, there’s still plenty of rolls to be had.

For example, if I rattle an object ball and my cue ball unintentionally lands wedged behind a group of other balls, brutally snookering my opponent, I’m probably going to get paid off with ball in hand - even though I was the one that made the mistake.

In 10 ball, if the shooter slops in a ball, the incoming player has the choice to either take the shot or pass it back. I’ve considered an additional rule that if the shooter misses their called shot, the incoming player also can choose to either take the shot or pass it back. This negates the lucky leaves where a player gets paid off for a miss.

This method might limit the power of two-way shots, but could be a more precise and less “roll the dice” way to play rotation. I’m going to give it a try this week with some sparring partners.

Might refer to it as Tough 10 Ball with friends so they know which variation we’re playing.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this or a variation?

Tenball doesn't need less luck, it needs the ability to call two and three way shots. IMO.

 

[Jerry R]

I’ve been playing a lot of 10 ball lately because I enjoy calling shots. That’s takes a significant amount of luck out of the game. However, there’s still plenty of rolls to be had.

For example, if I rattle an object ball and my cue ball unintentionally lands wedged behind a group of other balls, brutally snookering my opponent, I’m probably going to get paid off with ball in hand - even though I was the one that made the mistake.

In 10 ball, if the shooter slops in a ball, the incoming player has the choice to either take the shot or pass it back. I’ve considered an additional rule that if the shooter misses their called shot, the incoming player also can choose to either take the shot or pass it back. This negates the lucky leaves where a player gets paid off for a miss.

This method might limit the power of two-way shots, but could be a more precise and less “roll the dice” way to play rotation. I’m going to give it a try this week with some sparring partners.

Might refer to it as Tough 10 Ball with friends so they know which variation we’re playing.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this or a variation?

, yeahhhhh, this has been done with 10 ball by the pro game and then abandoned because it’s as interesting as watching paint dry. You like calling shots? Then play straight pool or Banks. I mean, truthfully, amongst skilled players, not just pros, but A level and shortstop amateurs as well, how often does “slop or luck” really come up? It’s my observation that those that cry about “luck” in rotation games are those that generally are looking for something to blame a failure or loss on. YMMV

I could be off on the timeline but seems like about 10 years ago "call shot, call safe" was a big thing. I think most of those Earl V Darren matches were played that way. Maybe even the 4 pocket 10ft match.

 

[dreamhouse]

, yeahhhhh, this has been done with 10 ball by the pro game and then abandoned because it’s as interesting as watching paint dry. You like calling shots? Then play straight pool or Banks. I mean, truthfully, amongst skilled players, not just pros, but A level and shortstop amateurs as well, how often does “slop or luck” really come up? It’s my observation that those that cry about “luck” in rotation games are those that generally are looking for something to blame a failure or loss on. YMMV

You are correct - I’m not a pro level or shortstop level player. The people in my pool room (and myself) often get lucky in games like 9 ball via unintentional lucky rolls which wildly swing the momentum. Calling shots prevents this and provides a significant benefit for mere mortals.

 

[Frosty]

I could be off on the timeline but seems like about 10 years ago "call shot, call safe" was a big thing. I think most of those Earl V Darren matches were played that way. Maybe even the 4 pocket 10ft match.

Yeahhhhh, and then it disappeared because no one really liked it. I allude to that in the post you quoted. Rotation isn’t meant to be call shot. It’s mostly been the game of choice of those that gamble and better players didn’t care about luck as it often drew in “fish” they could prey upon as the “luck factor” made lesser players feel they had more of a chance when it really never is generally a determining factor in the end.

 

[Zerksies]

I'd rather deal with the lucky shots. It's very rare that luck happens and a ball is pocketed. I see more luck in a guy missing a shot and me getting a bad leave.

 

[JPB2]

Rolls play a role.

I think this is a preference/philosophy issue. In general I am of the opposite outlook. Needless to say 10 ball is not my first choice to play or watch.

Perfect justice is not always found in the results of a particular shot or rack IMO.

 

[garczar]

Ten ball is fine. What the op describes is call shot/ call safe which is the most boring form of pool EVER. Roll are part of the game, deal with it. Personally i like WPA rules with one exception: called early 10b's should be allowed. Adds spice, not a fan of 10b last at all.

 

[garczar]

Tenball doesn't need less luck, it needs the ability to call two and three way shots. IMO.

that's basically call safe and it sucks. call your shot and if you get lucky on the safe so be it. trying to remove luck from rotation games is a joke. go play 14.1 or 1p if your 'luck averse'. Luckily no pro 10b events play call-safe. Robles' Pred. 10b Tour used to, i think that was last cs/cs events.

 

[dreamhouse]

Ten ball is fine. What the op describes is call shot/ call safe which is the most boring form of pool EVER. Roll are part of the game, deal with it. Personally i like WPA rules with one exception: called early 10b's should be allowed. Adds spice, not a fan of 10b last at all.

Thanks, Garczar - I didn’t realize this variation already existed as call shot/call safe 10 ball. I think this sounds fun!

 

[Jaden]

that's basically call safe and it sucks. call your shot and if you get lucky on the safe so be it. trying to remove luck from rotation games is a joke. go play 14.1 or 1p if your 'luck averse'. Luckily no pro 10b events play call-safe. Robles' Pred. 10b Tour used to, i think that was last cs/cs events.

That's not what I mean. I mean be able to call a carom as a secondary shot ,etc. It doesn't suck it speaks to strategy.

 

[maha]

take all luck out and then you can just award the winning prizes to the highest rated fargo players on down the line. as that is exactly what you are offering to do.

the more luck you add, the more exciting the game gets and more likely the less skilled player can win sometimes. i said sometimes.

and the more fun watching the games.

 

[VVP]

I think as an amateur you have to accept rolls, they can work for an against you. Rolls are not slops so they are more acceptable to me.

Google the game Saratoga if you never heard about it. It's a combination of 8 and 9 ball with everything call pocket. It is difficult because the lowest numbered ball must go in on each shot.

 

[fastone371]

take all luck out and then you can just award the winning prizes to the highest rated fargo players on down the line. as that is exactly what you are offering to do.

the more luck you add, the more exciting the game gets and more likely the less skilled player can win sometimes. i said sometimes.

and the more fun watching the games.

Wait a minute, that cannot be true. According to so many here on AZB Fargo sucks and is not at all accurate because everybody is sandbagging which knocks about 150-200 points off of their Fargo rating. That means all of 620's you see in the wild are really 820's.

 

[dreamhouse]

take all luck out and then you can just award the winning prizes to the highest rated fargo players on down the line. as that is exactly what you are offering to do.

the more luck you add, the more exciting the game gets and more likely the less skilled player can win sometimes. i said sometimes.

and the more fun watching the games.

Fair point. I think call shot/call foul 10 ball has its place if you’re looking for a more competitive experience with another serious player.

However, 9 ball would be a better fit for a more exciting, fun and “relaxed” game - and more suited for spectators.

There’s not a one size fits all game for everyone and every situation. I do like how call shot/call foul lends itself to rewarding the more precise player (even if it is more boring to watch and isn’t doing any favors for expanding billiards to the masses).

 

[sudocrushms]

Ten ball is fine. What the op describes is call shot/ call safe which is the most boring form of pool EVER. Roll are part of the game, deal with it. Personally i like WPA rules with one exception: called early 10b's should be allowed. Adds spice, not a fan of 10b last at all.

Agree with all this except early 10s. It's not a hill i'll die on, but i like to keep it entirely separate from 9b.

I used to think the 10 on the break should count until this last Predator event with the Aerorack... Jesus. I think Shane made 10-12 of them on the break in the matches i've watched...
Maybe feedback from that will convince Predator to make a template (because we all know how much they hate using non-Cat products lol).

 

[jsp]

I’ve been playing a lot of 10 ball lately because I enjoy calling shots. That takes a significant amount of luck out of the game (as an amateur player).

However, there’s still plenty of rolls to be had.

For example, if I rattle an object ball and my cue ball unintentionally lands wedged behind a group of other balls, brutally snookering my opponent, I’m probably going to get paid off with ball in hand - even though I was the one that made the mistake.

In 10 ball, if the shooter slops in a ball, the incoming player has the choice to either take the shot or pass it back. I’ve considered an additional rule that if the shooter misses their called shot, the incoming player also can choose to either take the shot or pass it back. This negates the lucky leaves where a player gets paid off for a miss.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this or a variation?

EDIT: Realized from some of your posts that this does exist as “Call Shot/Call Safe” 10 ball. Thanks!

I think I may have helped initiate the move to kill this version of 10-ball 18 years ago...lol...

Post in thread 'World Ten Ball Rules Announced - is 9-Ball WC history now?'

Feb 2, 2008

...Since the game is call shot, you can call safe, pocket the lowest ball and move the cue ball to a safe position...

I'm really surprised by this. IMO, this is just a bad idea. Having this rule would not penalize bad/careless position play at all. The position play fundamentals for rotation games can be thrown out the window...they're not completely necessary to win a rack. You can just pocket each ball and play safe for each shot.

For example, a weaker player gets careless on his position play from the 8 to the 9, getting himself way too straight to get from the 9 to the 10...

• jsp

• 

(too bad the very old WEI tables don't work anymore)

EDIT: Nevermind. The version that I referenced was the call safe rule in which the shooter can call a safe, pocket a ball, and the incoming player is forced to shoot. The current rule that the incoming player has the choice to pass it back if a shot is slopped in is what negates that rule.

 

[philly]

I’ve been playing a lot of 10 ball lately because I enjoy calling shots. That takes a significant amount of luck out of the game (as an amateur player).

However, there’s still plenty of rolls to be had.

For example, if I rattle an object ball and my cue ball unintentionally lands wedged behind a group of other balls, brutally snookering my opponent, I’m probably going to get paid off with ball in hand - even though I was the one that made the mistake.

In 10 ball, if the shooter slops in a ball, the incoming player has the choice to either take the shot or pass it back. I’ve considered an additional rule that if the shooter misses their called shot, the incoming player also can choose to either take the shot or pass it back. This negates the lucky leaves where a player gets paid off for a miss.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this or a variation?

EDIT: Realized from some of your posts that this does exist as “Call Shot/Call Safe” 10 ball. Thanks!

Call shot, call safe is the only way I'll play 10 ball. Take the luck out of the game.
The only way I'll play 9ball is rack your own, 9 on the break gets spotted and call the 9. There is enough luck in Texas Express 9 ball.

 

[Coos Cues]

You are correct - I’m not a pro level or shortstop level player. The people in my pool room (and myself) often get lucky in games like 9 ball via unintentional lucky rolls which wildly swing the momentum. Calling shots prevents this and provides a significant benefit for mere mortals.

Rules will not even the playing field against better players. Or make much difference at all no matter who is participating in the long run.

Lesser players get rolls and the better player usually overcome them in a match longer than three games. On rare occasions not but that is usually because the better player has an off day or the other player has a great day.