★ Skinny Shaft vs. ★ Fat Shaft

JoeyA said:
Here's one graphic to scale: (Red shows 11mm tip & blue shows 13mm tip.

picture.php


Well, it is drawn to scale. Looks a tad larger than 57.15mm.
JoeyA
Click to expand...

Hi Joey,

Since the ball is actually 3D, if both of those offsets for the different sized tips were pushed forward until contact with a flat tip, the smaller tip would contact the CB more on the side & hence, more spin for the same center line of the cue. When one stays close to center with a curved tip the difference is not there. But when one gets out far enough to where the edge of the tip is used & the contact is more to the side of the ball the difference can become apparent.

If this has already been pointed out, then please ignore.

Too often in these 'discussion' things go into too much isolation & parameters that matter are forgotten or neglected.

Also some state matters regarding particulars in the ALL being equal mode & doing this can be misleading to some if not many. That's because all is not equal in the 'normal' manners of operation & leather tips almost never stay in the perfect arc of the initial radius.

Best 2 ALL.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Maybe this will help. Here's a 13mm cue touching the CB with a 10mm cue superimposed on it (dotted lines). Since they both have the same tip curvature, they both contact the CB at the same distance from their respective centerlines - in fact, it's the same tip +/- some extraneous outer material.

pj
chgo

View attachment 75521
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Now if I could only see a 10mm tip/shaft aimed at the same centerline, superimposed on top of the 13MM tip.shaft...

JoeyA
 
Patrick Johnson said:
No smiley, so pardon me if I missed the joke, Joey, but that's exactly what the pic shows.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I see that now Patrick. Just more reading comprehension problems on my part. To solidify this and put it to bed I drew the image below in Corel Draw to scale and the illustration matches yours.

Thanks! I finally "get it". :D

Now, one more exploration: Will the smaller tip 10mm upon contact with the cue ball, compress more than the 13mm tip with both having the same amount of force and location etc. and thereby provide more English?

Still dwelling on the skinny shaft versus the fat shaft.......

picture.php

JoeyA
 
Shaft size and tip size can be different. By using a step down or a step up ferrule. Ernie at Ginacue has used this idea before. You can be comfortable with the shaft feel and choose any size tip. This is an old idea. In the 60's, I saw straight pool players using 14.5 tips on 12.5 shafts using what they called "mushroom" ferrules.
 
I recently went threw a hell of a time with shafts.
I bought a Poison cue with 2 venom shafts (13mm) , now before I bought the cue I would use a Lucasi with standard 13mm shaft (which felt very good in hand)and also a Viking with a Vikore shaft that I had taken down to 12mm.
When I got the Poison I had a hell of a time shooting decent, couldn't cut, couldn't make shape to save my life lol. Now, I figured it was the tip as I'm not a big fan of layered tips. So I changed the Sarin tip to an Elk Master.... Then a Le Pro, a bit better but still no Bueno.
So I took out the Viking (12mm shaft) and noticed a huge difference.
Now, I like to learn how to do stuff on my own (because I'm cheap and poor right now and can't be affording to spend $80 to have a shaft taken down) and figured since I have 2 shafts, if I mess one up I can wait to have it fixed and use the second shaft.
So I did my thing, by hand (no lathe) and it came out as if it was done by a cue maker/repair person.
Even showed a friend the Vikore shaft ( paid to have done) and the one I did, he thought I paid for both to be done hahaha.
Anyways, the difference is crazy!! I can play half decent again hahaha. Much better ball control, better cutting ect.
It's just funny how in my had it felt just a bit different (12mm vs 13mm) but actually playing, there's a massive difference.
 
JoeyA said:
I see that now Patrick. Just more reading comprehension problems on my part. To solidify this and put it to bed I drew the image below in Corel Draw to scale and the illustration matches yours.

Thanks! I finally "get it". :D
Click to expand...
Cool! By the way, our matching drawings of the tip touching the CB is exactly how I figured out where the "chalk marks" would be on the tip in my earlier pic.

Now, one more exploration: Will the smaller tip 10mm upon contact with the cue ball, compress more than the 13mm tip with both having the same amount of force and location etc. and thereby provide more English?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't think so, if they're the same material/hardness/etc. But that's not my department - I just clean up around here.

pj
chgo
 
onepocket1 said:
Shaft size and tip size can be different. By using a step down or a step up ferrule. Ernie at Ginacue has used this idea before. You can be comfortable with the shaft feel and choose any size tip. This is an old idea. In the 60's, I saw straight pool players using 14.5 tips on 12.5 shafts using what they called "mushroom" ferrules.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of that, but I've played with some mushroomed Elk Masters in my younger years.
 
With the smaller tip in the illustration it appears that the contact on the tip is more to the outside of the tip than with the larger tip. I am just wondering if edges of a tip are harder than the centers of the tip, especially on a smaller tip. There has to be a reason why I seem to be able to play better one pocket than nine ball besides me liking it better.

I think my next quest is to take out my largest LD shaft and start playing nine ball with it. Better yet, I will start comparing the differences of the "fat shaft" vs the "skinny shaft" shooting typical nine ball shots to see if there is a difference in consistency of pocketing the balls and getting shape.


JoeyA

Patrick Johnson said:
Cool! By the way, our matching drawings of the tip touching the CB is exactly how I figured out where the "chalk marks" would be on the tip in my earlier pic.


I wouldn't think so, if they're the same material/hardness/etc. But that's not my department - I just clean up around here.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
 
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