$1,000,000 9-Ball Shootout... discussion

allen_jr

allen_jr

CanYouRunOut.com
Silver Member
Ok, parts of this post originally started in the "Mike Davis looking for a sponsor" topic.. however, I think these are some important issues and I would like to help clarify things for people and/or answer questions. I don't know if it is a forum faux pas to branch off into a new thread, if it is, I apologize... You can read more in the "Mike Davis looking for a sponsor" topic, and you should sponsor Mike Davis if you can. You are almost guaranteed to make a nice score...

I am starting this thread with a recent post and my response...

memikey said:
I honestly don't mean this in any way negatively, quite the reverse.

When you cut away all the chaff, at the end of the day Allen is simply offering anyone of any level of pool ability from anywhere a $5,000/- dollar place in a tournament to be run under his reliable auspices.

He also certainly, and quite rightly so, doesn't seem to have any stipulations about how any particular group of people pool their money to send an entrant to the event and even if he did, how would he police it?

Only one of those ways for groups of players to pool money is via qualifying events. These are plain common sense in order to make it affordable but according to the website Allen doesn't organise those qualifying events nor have any rules over their format, that's entirely down to any room or club or group of players who are inclined to run one.

If alternatively you want to hold a raffle between 10 of you at $500 each there's nothing to stop you and you could then can give the winning ticket holder the $5,000 dollars and he can buy and send in his own entry independently or he could even sponsor another player of his choosing. Two guys can play each other at golf for $2,500 and the winner buy his entry. There appears to be no added benefit to someone gaining entry through a qualifying event to him gaining entry by winning the $5,000 dollars in a raffle or a bare knuckle fight or at the race track. He will just be another entrant.

What Allen has uniquely got and deserves is the level of trust that should never have been given to this idea's recently deceased uncle. There can be precious little doubt that he will fulfil his promise of paying out promptly a prize fund commensurate in total with the actual number of entries.

It has to be hoped that when the first event next month almost inevitably falls short of the full number of $5k entrants required for a full million dollar prize fund, the pool playing and supporting public are astute and patient enough to realise that Rome wasn't built in a day and to stick with it for future events to give the numbers a fair crack of the whip to build up. Someone walking off with a first prize of even $75,000/- in the first event will be good news for the sport if viewed in perspective.
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Thanks for pointing all of this out. This is precisely what we are trying to achieve. Although we would prefer that people don't have a bare-knuckle fight for the entry fee :) The point is correct, we want the average player to be able to qualify into this event for $25 or $50. This is VERY reasonable.

Let me give a scenario:
Suppose you are the best player in your local poolroom. Lets say you are a solid 6 in the APA. You are not a world champion, or even state champion, but in the small bar/poolroom you hang out in, you are the best. Not unbeatable, but a small favorite against everyone. You could persuade the owner/manager to organize some mini-satellites there. Get the room owner to host 8-man $25 tournaments a couple nights a week. These could be handicapped, your choice. You figure to be a favorite. Make it known that eventually there will be a $200 tournament that people can win their way into... this can be handicapped also, doesnt matter. The eventual winner of that tournament will now be playing in the $5000 buy in event. Now, you can repeat the whole process and then 2 players can be in the main event...

So now, come August, you show up in Valley Forge and you find out that 150 other poolrooms around this huge country did the same thing. Unfortunately, 25 of the World's best poolplayers have posted $5000 to play in this event. Even worse, another 25 of some of the most talented, completely unknown road player have gotten their backers to sponsor them for the entry (all handled by Allen Hopkins Productions, so there is no worry for the sponsors about getting paid or players running off)...

So now, here you are. You have just made it into the 3rd annual $1,000,000 9 Ball Shootout. You have paid $25 to play in this event. So have another 149 of the total 225 players in this event. There is a staggering $1,125,000 in prize money. You are guaranteed $1000 just for showing up....

So now, of course there is a draw. Lucky for you, you won't face a World Class player or solid unknown player until at least the third round. By this point, you are guaranteed $10,000.

So yes, most of you are right, the average player may not have a chance to win this. However, they can have a great time and make good money. This is the plan. The satellites are not expensive. The minis are even cheaper. Yes, this event does require a lot of involvement at the local level. No, we cannot be everywhere and make these local events happen. But what we can do is organize an event, show people how it can work, and do our best to promote it. The word will get out, and people will see how great this can be! Yes, it will take time, but it can happen.

If you don't think this model can work, just stroll on over to the Rio and watch the World Series of Poker for about 10 minutes. How many of those 1000's of players posted $10,000 to get in? Yes, poker is different, but money is money. We all want it, we're just trying to create a system to get it. There is NO ADDED MONEY in poker tournaments. Sponsors ARE NOT ADDING MONEY to the prize pool, its quite the opposite, the house is taking a nice cut OUT of the players pockets, and no one says a word. AND, only 10 percent of the entrants will get any cash.

If you read all this, thanks... feel free to discuss. Oh yeah, please check out the "Tournament Announcement" section of the site, because we keep adding satellite events...
 
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Just thought of something...

Sorry to be the first to reply to my own post, but I just re-read it and wanted to point something out, and address this quote:

tattoosbyjay said:
i was talking about the Professional Players Championship 2 grand is alot of money to most people espacially if you are backing yourself .at 500 there is 32,000 in the pot why dont sponsors add money valley forge is a very big event and it makes a ton of money i just think there is a way for allen to add money or get sponsors to add money, just a thought ,but i think making the entry fee really high is gonna make it alot harder for most palyers to play in the event, i own my own buisness and couldnt afford to pay that , i know a few very strong open players who are capable of winning there but cant play or wont pay 500 for the event, its a real shame that to make it in this sport it cost more money than its worth unless you are ranked in the top ten on the money list no disrespect to anyone just giving a differant point of veiw here
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The largest paying event, the World Series of Poker, main event has over 7000 entries. The Rio has TAKEN $600 FROM EVERY PLAYER. That is $4,200,000. Thats 4.2 million. That is just their take. That is just for this event, which is only 1 out of 55 or so "World Series" events, all of which they take a cut out of... There is NO ADDED MONEY. There is NO SPONSOR MONEY ADDED. Yes, there are sponsors, but the Rio gets that money too. Plus the merchandising money, food and beverage, tv money, and the room rentals, and so on... I can't even imagine how much they make by having the "World Series" events in their casino. I could live for 5 years on what the litte Starbucks in the hallway probably brings in during those 6 weeks.

Now I have no problem with that. They offer a product that everyone wants a piece of, and some players will get very rich from this event. However, the truth is still there, all of that money is coming out of the event. Poker players are not winning huge sums of money because sponsors or promoters are adding it to the prize pool. Poker players are posting large sums of money to win large sums of money. They have created the action because they all think they can win. Now I know poker is much more luck based, I am not trying to start a discussion about poker vs pool. I am trying to illustrate the power and necessity of getting the money into these events. Sponsors and promoters cant keep adding money, and players will never survive if payouts don't increase. If you can't afford the entry, find a sponsor or someone who believes in you enough to post the money on your behalf. Once you start winning big tournament money, and all the events pay big money, the top players will have more money...
 
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I wish you the best of luck in this event. I was thinking about how to formulate a pool event that would have the type of attraction the WSOP did for poker.

Of course the only drawback is that while, in poker, we see guys like Moneymaker and others take down the top prize, that is not as likely to happen in pool. A guaranteed $1000 plus the luck of the draw factor helps.

One thing that you might consider for the future is to offer a consolation tourney for the people that go 0-2 and 1-2 and are out of the main tournament. This would probably need either two venues or one large one. This type of thing might be done instead of the guaranteed $1000, as you can't do both and keep the monies big at the top. Another variation: keep the $1000 guaranteed, and offer a consolation tourney for the people who go 0-2 and 1-2, but make it optional and $1000 entry fee.

Just a suggestion that could be an option. Good luck !!

Edit: I wrote this before reading the format. My ideas really apply to the standard double elimination tourney.
 
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This can work...

allen_jr said:
Sorry to be the first to reply to my own post, but I just re-read it and wanted to point something out, and address this quote:



The largest paying event, the World Series of Poker, main event has over 7000 entries. The Rio has TAKEN $600 FROM EVERY PLAYER. That is $4,200,000. Thats 4.2 million. That is just their take. That is just for this event, which is only 1 out of 55 or so "World Series" events, all of which they take a cut out of... There is NO ADDED MONEY. There is NO SPONSOR MONEY ADDED. Yes, there are sponsors, but the Rio gets that money too. Plus the merchandising money, food and beverage, tv money, and the room rentals, and so on... I can't even imagine how much they make by having the "World Series" events in their casino. I could live for 5 years on what the litte Starbucks in the hallway probably brings in during those 6 weeks.

Now I have no problem with that. They offer a product that everyone wants a piece of, and some players will get very rich from this event. However, the truth is still there, all of that money is coming out of the event. Poker players are not winning huge sums of money because sponsors or promoters are adding it to the prize pool. Poker players are posting large sums of money to win large sums of money. They have created the action because they all think they can win. Now I know poker is much more luck based, I am not trying to start a discussion about poker vs pool. I am trying to illustrate the power and necessity of getting the money into these events. Sponsors and promoters cant keep adding money, and players will never survive if payouts don't increase. If you can't afford the entry, find a sponsor or someone who believes in you enough to post the money on your behalf. Once you start winning big tournament money, and all the events pay big money, the top players will have more money...
Click to expand...

Allen the overall plan for the long term is a good one. I plan to follow this path. I also copied from the Mike Davis thread.

This is a good way to promote pool so everyone can play and have fun. I am going to run one tourney a week for 16 players at a $40 buy-in. The winner gets a $400.00 buy-in. At the end of 16 weeks I have 16 players with $400.00 each in the playoff to see who advances to Valley Forge. Repeat two more sessions and wala, I have three players going. 16 week sessions, one week play-off times 3 is 51 weeks. I pay the room the greens fees and whatever is left, I put back into pool. Sounds like a plan to me. I am sure Mr. Hopkins and Allen Jr. will mentor me to make sure I am crossing all the T's and dotting all the I's. Pool is promoted. We all win, in my view.
 
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Thanks! I think your plan is a good one.. I actually have a plan like that set up as well, I just need to get the info on the website and then start to get places to implement it. It works almost like an inhouse league, every 13 weeks someone will win an entry into the event... I will probably get that info up on the website after this years event, or maybe even have it availabel at the event this year...

It lets players play 8 weeks of $5 or $10 tourneys, then 4 weeks of $25 tourneys, culminated in week 13 by one $200 entry tourney. Weeks 1-12 are all mini satellites which will feed the $200 event. Of course, at any step a player may buy in directly. After 13 weeks, 1 player from that poolroom will be qualified. If this happens at poolrooms all over the country, the event will be filled with top local amateur players, mixed in with pros all playing for the big money... The poolrooms will make money by having all these minis because the players will be in there playing and spending money in the establishment. Some naysayers say that there is no money in the minis for the establishment, but there is indirectly. As far as I know, none of the big leagues pay any poolrooms (APA, TAP, VNEA). The poolrooms have these leagues to full their places up with bodies...

Thanks again for all your help with the event, and good luck with your satellite in Florida.
 
I think Allen (Senior and Junior) is on the right track to create an important event in pool. And if it works, we may see more events like this. What I really like is that Allen is NOT taking any money out of the $5,000 entry fees. It ALL goes into the purse! That is from Allen's (Sr.) mouth to me.

With only 100 players (which I think is realistic the first time out), the purse will be $500,000! The winner may get $100,000! Not a bad first prize for someone. It's very doubtful you'll ever see fields the size of the World Series of Poker for such a pool tournament, because the "luck" factor is just not the same in pool. But there is no reason why we can't get fields of one to five hundred pool players for a big buy-in event. The "backers" are out there and there are literally a few thousand top players the world over. Watch how quickly the U.S. Open fills this year (256 players) with the 100K Added Money!

Maybe the day will come when we see a series of pool tournaments, similar to the World Series. All big buy-in events, maybe ranging from $1,000 to $10,000 and incorporating several games. Like One Pocket, 9-Ball, Ten Ball, Eight Ball, Banks and Straight Pool. Six games held over 2-3 weeks with big prize money in each event.

I've got to quit getting ideas like this. It always seems to get me in trouble. :smile:
 
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I'm afraid for the pro's to play for big purses now or in the forseeable future this is the only way. As long as the pay-offs go deep I don't see a thing wrong with it. Like Jay said theres 100's of good players out there and some stakehorses that would want in on it. Johnnyt
 
payout structures...

If anyone is interested, you can visit our website and see the payout structures as well... The payouts do go deep, rather than being top-heavy (which imo, poker is WAY too top heavy, especially considering the amazing amount of luck required to win a big tourney)

Our payouts will ensure that most players will earn a decent 4-day profit. It would certainly be more glamorous and exciting to have 1 huge paycheck for the winner, but by spreading out the payouts we can ensure that most players will earn some good money... Once lots of top players are consistently earning good money, even as far out as 16th place, then the stakes can keep getting higher and everyone can afford to play, and players will keep making more money. It feeds itself, synergy.

Check out the tentative payment structures here: http://www.milliondollar9ball.com/format.html
 
jay helfert said:
.

With only 100 players (which I think is realistic the first time out), :
Click to expand...


Wow and you have actually promoted events. Ill give you 3-1 on that number and feel real guilty. Im hoping for a big success of course but man that is optimistic.
 
Thanks...

allen_jr said:
Thanks! I think your plan is a good one.. I actually have a plan like that set up as well, I just need to get the info on the website and then start to get places to implement it. It works almost like an inhouse league, every 13 weeks someone will win an entry into the event... I will probably get that info up on the website after this years event, or maybe even have it availabel at the event this year...

It lets players play 8 weeks of $5 or $10 tourneys, then 4 weeks of $25 tourneys, culminated in week 13 by one $200 entry tourney. Weeks 1-12 are all mini satellites which will feed the $200 event. Of course, at any step a player may buy in directly. After 13 weeks, 1 player from that poolroom will be qualified. If this happens at poolrooms all over the country, the event will be filled with top local amateur players, mixed in with pros all playing for the big money... The poolrooms will make money by having all these minis because the players will be in there playing and spending money in the establishment. Some naysayers say that there is no money in the minis for the establishment, but there is indirectly. As far as I know, none of the big leagues pay any poolrooms (APA, TAP, VNEA). The poolrooms have these leagues to full their places up with bodies...

Thanks again for all your help with the event, and good luck with your satellite in Florida.
Click to expand...

I will do my best for this event and for the good of pool.
 
Good thoughts...

jay helfert said:
I think Allen (Senior and Junior) is on the right track to create an important event in pool. And if it works, we may see more events like this. What I really like is that Allen is NOT taking any money out of the $5,000 entry fees. It ALL goes into the purse! That is from Allen's (Sr.) mouth to me.

With only 100 players (which I think is realistic the first time out), the purse will be $500,000! The winner may get $100,000! Not a bad first prize for someone. It's very doubtful you'll ever see fields the size of the World Series of Poker for such a pool tournament, because the "luck" factor is just not the same in pool. But there is no reason why we can't get fields of one to five hundred pool players for a big buy-in event. The "backers" are out there and there are literally a few thousand top players the world over. Watch how quickly the U.S. Open fills this year (256 players) with the 100K Added Money!

Maybe the day will come when we see a series of pool tournaments, similar to the World Series. All big buy-in events, maybe ranging from $1,000 to $10,000 and incorporating several games. Like One Pocket, 9-Ball, Ten Ball, Eight Ball, Banks and Straight Pool. Six games held over 2-3 weeks with big prize money in each event.

I've got to quit getting ideas like this. It always seems to get me in trouble. :smile:
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Mr. Helfert, you have a good head on your shoulders and I like the way you think. With people like you, Allen, Allen Jr., Mike Janis and many others that love pool, we can make this happen.
 
Nostroke said:
Wow and you have actually promoted events. Ill give you 3-1 on that number and feel real guilty. Im hoping for a big success of course but man that is optimistic.
Click to expand...

I did promote an event or two. And there have been knockers at all of them. Welcome to the club! :cool:
 
I think Allen Hopkins brokering the sponsorship arrangements is the absolute best idea I've heard in years

matter of fact, it should be the DE FACTO STANDARD for all major tourneys and I wouldn't mind seeing the WPA mandate all promoters incorporate this as a sanctioning stipulation
 
sponsorsed players...

Thanks for the compliment, if you are interested in seeing some of the players that are looking for sponsors, just click on the following link:

http://www.milliondollar9ball.com/sponsors.html

These players have submitted themselves to the site and are looking for a sponsor for this event... if you have the money, there is some real talent here looking to play, such as Marlon Manalo!
 
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