10-Ball BIG FOOT International Field...who will win on the 5x10 Diamond table?

kkdanamatt

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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
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I sense Jayson Shaw is the one to beat, but I'll forego the obvious choices and pick Fedor Gorst.
 

skogstokig

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I sense Jayson Shaw is the one to beat, but I'll forego the obvious choices and pick Fedor Gorst.

i think shaw has lost a step or two lately, probably due to having become a hall owner. it got flooded too i think, his pool hall
 

kkdanamatt

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I didn't even notice Yapp was in it. I thought when they posted a couple of weeks back he wasn't in it. But maybe everyone was complaining about Biado and not Yapp.

Good one :D
Carlo Biado decided to return home until next year. I’m guessing he’ll be playing at the DCC.
 

CaleAYS

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Yeah Shaw is always a good bet on the ten foot but he hasn’t been showing his normal form lately. Might be the event he needs to get him on track. Yapp, Gomez, Gorst and SVB seem to be most consistent the last couple of events so it would be hard for me to not pick one of those 4.
 

AtLarge

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I didn't even notice Yapp was in it. I thought when they posted a couple of weeks back he wasn't in it. But maybe everyone was complaining about Biado and not Yapp.

Good one :D
But I wonder whether Yapp has ever played on a 10-footer.
 

mikepage

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Perhaps my post was too subtle. :)

But I wonder whether Yapp has ever played on a 10-footer.
I doubt it matters.

I also question conventional wisdom that going to bigger table with longer shots or tighter pockets favors the shotmaker. This is one of those things that seems so obviously true we don't actually think it through, and we don't look for data to support it. True or not, once we reach consensus on it, confirmation bias cements it in further insuring we don't think about it.

So, are shotmakers favored going to 10-foot tables?

Consider first competitive shelf stocking. Alex and Ruslan are overnight Walmart shelf stockers. They get locked in and go at it each night competing with one another for the coveted monthly super-stocker award for the most pallets. They're dead even for the past four months.
The highest shelf, which Ruslan can reach and Alex can't, is at 7-feet.

One night they show up, and there is a new shelf, a new top shelf at 8-feet. Ruslan is better at reaching than Alex is, and while he's closer to being able to reach it than Alex is, he can't quite get there. Because Alex is overall equal to Ruslan in past productivity, he must have developed strategies to make his reaching deficiency less important. Perhaps he's faster or he can climb up on the lower shelf or he pre-organizes the supplies better. Ruslan has had no need to develop strategies to deal with hard-to-reach shelves. As shelves get harder to reach, it may be the strong reacher is disadvantaged. It may be that as shelves get harder to reach, strategies to deal with out-of-reach shelves becomes more important than reaching ability.

Back to pool

Suppose Sheldon Shot and Larry Line are equal rated pool players despite Sheldon being a better shotmaker. Because Larry wins as much as Sheldon, he much have skills that mitigate or compensate for his weaker shot-making. Let's say that skill is precise lines. Larry is good at knowing just where the cueball is going to hit that second rail and on what line it will come off the rail. This skill allows him to play shape closer to the next object ball and get a shorter shot. Because Sheldon, by contrast, can only predict that line more approximately and might be coming in a little more across the desired cueball line, Sheldon hits the cueball a little less hard to make sure the cueball is in the clear and he has a shot. Sheldon's shots are a little longer on average. But that's OK because he's better at making them. This is the dynamic that is in equilibrium on normal equipment.

What happens when you tighten the pockets or lengthen the table? Sheldon, who already had used shotmaking as a crutch to overcome deficiencies in cueball lines, finds those deficiencies matter more and his shotmaking just isn't the be all end all fix all he had hoped.

**********
By the way, we began thinking like this several years when we were trying to find evidence that shorter players became progressively disadvantaged going from 7-foot to 9-foot to 10-foot tables because they could reach a progressively smaller percentage of the shots. I don't remember when we did this, but it was Alex who emerged as the top performer on the 10-foot table. Perhaps Alex's well honed skill was dealing with shots you can't reach or choosing patterns the lead to fewer hard-to-reach shots. We're now thinking the counter intuitive notion that being tall might be a disadvantage moving to a larger table.

We're now thinking if Walmart put in a 9-foot shelf, don't bet against Alex.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I doubt it matters.

I also question conventional wisdom that going to bigger table with longer shots or tighter pockets favors the shotmaker. This is one of those things that seems so obviously true we don't actually think it through, and we don't look for data to support it. True or not, once we reach consensus on it, confirmation bias cements it in further insuring we don't think about it.

So, are shotmakers favored going to 10-foot tables?

Consider first competitive shelf stocking. Alex and Ruslan are overnight Walmart shelf stockers. They get locked in and go at it each night competing with one another for the coveted monthly super-stocker award for the most pallets. They're dead even for the past four months.
The highest shelf, which Ruslan can reach and Alex can't, is at 7-feet.

One night they show up, and there is a new shelf, a new top shelf at 8-feet. Ruslan is better at reaching than Alex is, and while he's closer to being able to reach it than Alex is, he can't quite get there. Because Alex is overall equal to Ruslan in past productivity, he must have developed strategies to make his reaching deficiency less important. Perhaps he's faster or he can climb up on the lower shelf or he pre-organizes the supplies better. Ruslan has had no need to develop strategies to deal with hard-to-reach shelves. As shelves get harder to reach, it may be the strong reacher is disadvantaged. It may be that as shelves get harder to reach, strategies to deal with out-of-reach shelves becomes more important than reaching ability.

Back to pool

Suppose Sheldon Shot and Larry Line are equal rated pool players despite Sheldon being a better shotmaker. Because Larry wins as much as Sheldon, he much have skills that mitigate or compensate for his weaker shot-making. Let's say that skill is precise lines. Larry is good at knowing just where the cueball is going to hit that second rail and on what line it will come off the rail. This skill allows him to play shape closer to the next object ball and get a shorter shot. Because Sheldon, by contrast, can only predict that line more approximately and might be coming in a little more across the desired cueball line, Sheldon hits the cueball a little less hard to make sure the cueball is in the clear and he has a shot. Sheldon's shots are a little longer on average. But that's OK because he's better at making them. This is the dynamic that is in equilibrium on normal equipment.

What happens when you tighten the pockets or lengthen the table? Sheldon, who already had used shotmaking as a crutch to overcome deficiencies in cueball lines, finds those deficiencies matter more and his shotmaking just isn't the be all end all fix all he had hoped.

**********
By the way, we began thinking like this several years when we were trying to find evidence that shorter players became progressively disadvantaged going from 7-foot to 9-foot to 10-foot tables because they could reach a progressively smaller percentage of the shots. I don't remember when we did this, but it was Alex who emerged as the top performer on the 10-foot table. Perhaps Alex's well honed skill was dealing with shots you can't reach or choosing patterns the lead to fewer hard-to-reach shots. We're now thinking the counter intuitive notion that being tall might be a disadvantage moving to a larger table.

We're now thinking if Walmart put in a 9-foot shelf, don't bet against Alex.
Great post Mike... (y)

CB control and pattern management can beat shoot making. Handicap the shoot makers, and who now has the edge..? Once the tables grow in size, it's also nice to have the skill to use a mechanical bridge. That's something even the bulk of the pool elite do horribly.

If I had money to bet, I'd place it on Pagulayan. On the right day he's even money against the best, and no one else in the field knows how to deal with a big table better than him.
 
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