tjlmbklr said:
Yes..........Get_A_Grip said:
10 ball ghost - speed rating system
- Thread starter Eagleshot
- Start date
I tried it 2 times within one month.
The first time, after taking a break of the game, I a made 32.
I started to play maybe twice a week and tried it again and made 60, but for sure I am not an A player, probably more a C+
It seems like the results can vary a lot, the break makes a huge difference.
The first time, after taking a break of the game, I a made 32.
I started to play maybe twice a week and tried it again and made 60, but for sure I am not an A player, probably more a C+
It seems like the results can vary a lot, the break makes a huge difference.
A players beat the 9ball ghost, although its close. Pro players flat out rob the 9ball ghost, and most touring pros play the 11 and 12 ball ghost.
A cool variation of the ghost is the onepocket ghost. Rack 15, break with BIH and see how many you get. Do ten racks and get an avg. Bud Green and I were discussing this game and he told me some interesting stories about what Efren does against the 1p Ghost. I'll let him chime in if he likes to tell the rest.
AZE, try races to 7 against the 9ball ghost for practice. Then adjust the game based upon your scores with the ghost giving up some weight. You might be surprised at how much weight the ghost can give up and still win. The ghost can also be used to match up with. Like for example one player plays the ghost even and the other gets the wild 8, alternate breaks.
A cool variation of the ghost is the onepocket ghost. Rack 15, break with BIH and see how many you get. Do ten racks and get an avg. Bud Green and I were discussing this game and he told me some interesting stories about what Efren does against the 1p Ghost. I'll let him chime in if he likes to tell the rest.
AZE, try races to 7 against the 9ball ghost for practice. Then adjust the game based upon your scores with the ghost giving up some weight. You might be surprised at how much weight the ghost can give up and still win. The ghost can also be used to match up with. Like for example one player plays the ghost even and the other gets the wild 8, alternate breaks.
I did the 10-ball drill twice the first time I scored 24 balls and the second time 44. I'm probably somewhere in between there to tell you the truth, but on the other hand I did no warm up before the first session. I had never done it before, but it was pretty fun if you're just shooting by yourself.
BigCat said:
Simply rack the balls, break and take BIH. If you run out you win the rack - if you don't the ghost wins.
I'm not sure what happens if you scratch off the break - personally I class that as losing the rack. I've not played the ghost at 9 ball but I have played it at 8 ball. I've always managed to beat the ghost. From memory my recent scores were 10-4, 10-1, 10-2 and 10-0. Maybe 8 ball is a little easier because with BIH you can choose the easiest set and break out your bad ball if there is one. After reading this thread I can't wait to try the 10 ball rating system - sounds like fun.
Get_A_Grip said:
OK so I'm gonna give this a try but first I need to get some rules straight.
1. If 'any balls made on a scratch are spotted' are you saying there is no other penalty for scrtahcing and it's not loss of rack? Just to clarify what happens if you a) scratch of the break and b) scratch at any other time.
2. If you play a combo on to the ten ball do you also count all the other balls left on the table as having been potted? And if so presumably you score 10 if you make the 10 of the break?
I believe scratch on the break is -2 points. If you scratch anytime after that the rack is over and the ball you made on that shot doesn't count.
If you make a combo on the 10ball then you keep shooting the rack just like normal. In other words, the 10ball is only worth 1pt just like the rest of the balls.
If you make a combo on the 10ball then you keep shooting the rack just like normal. In other words, the 10ball is only worth 1pt just like the rest of the balls.
Well I tried this last night and scored 72 - so I'm a pro! 
The only problem is I hadn't read ShaneT58's post so I didn't penalise 1 scratch off the break (-2 points) and I had a couple of combo's and a ten off the break. So my real score would probably have been more like 42!
And I was just about to give up my day job!
The only problem is I hadn't read ShaneT58's post so I didn't penalise 1 scratch off the break (-2 points) and I had a couple of combo's and a ten off the break. So my real score would probably have been more like 42!
And I was just about to give up my day job!
I'm gonna finish it this afternoon. I started last night with a single rack, broke, made two balls, respotted them (I now know that was incorrect) and ran the rack. So I'm at ten. I guess only good things can happen now.
I made 56, felt like I was playing good, not great. I can live with an A speed rating, with the 14.1 speed rating I came to about c/d.
gr. Dave
gr. Dave
I have my doubts
I don't know about this one, after having tried this only once I am somewhat uncertain whether this is a good rating system. Factors like the size of the pockets and the quality of the racking are huge.
I tried it yesterday, and got this result:
10
10
10
4 tried to cheat the pocket for position
6 skid (is that the name?) on the seven
10
10
4 slugracked myself and was too lazy to care- idiot!
10
5 blew an easy ball
A total of 79, am I a pro?
I can beat a pro in a tournament now and then, but I have a full time job and even if most pool players live a life in self-denial regarding his own abilities, I do not consider myself a pro by my definitions.
Still, if I break the balls properly with a good spread, I think I should achieve more than 71 (pro-rating) most of the time. And so should many other good "shortstops" or "advanced amatuers" or "open players" or whatever out there also do, in my opinion.
It would be interesting to hear from someone who has tried this over a period of time, Joe Tucker obviously must have done some work to come up with his rating, but are there many out there who have monitored their performances over time, and found a rating they feel is correct?
I don't know about this one, after having tried this only once I am somewhat uncertain whether this is a good rating system. Factors like the size of the pockets and the quality of the racking are huge.
I tried it yesterday, and got this result:
10
10
10
4 tried to cheat the pocket for position
6 skid (is that the name?) on the seven
10
10
4 slugracked myself and was too lazy to care- idiot!
10
5 blew an easy ball
A total of 79, am I a pro?
I can beat a pro in a tournament now and then, but I have a full time job and even if most pool players live a life in self-denial regarding his own abilities, I do not consider myself a pro by my definitions.
Still, if I break the balls properly with a good spread, I think I should achieve more than 71 (pro-rating) most of the time. And so should many other good "shortstops" or "advanced amatuers" or "open players" or whatever out there also do, in my opinion.
It would be interesting to hear from someone who has tried this over a period of time, Joe Tucker obviously must have done some work to come up with his rating, but are there many out there who have monitored their performances over time, and found a rating they feel is correct?
Joe T
Well-known member
Just wanted to let the thread run it's course before offering my opinion. First off the sole purpose of the exercise was not intended to perfectly rate someone, especially after only a few tries but I can tell you it’s a lot more accurate than some people are giving it credit for. The main purpose of this exercise is for a player to see where he or she stands, establish an average (100 racks will definitely do this) and use it as a means of competitive practice and as a progress marker. Practicing pool alone can be a very tough thing to do for some people and exercises like this can help keep their focus.
When I started it about 15yrs ago I believe I was around a 40 or 45 and can now bet on 75, doesn’t seem like much of a jump for that amount of time but there is the law of diminishing return involved.
The book was put out in 1999 and was based on players that were playing then and probably the players I had seen over the previous 10 years and I do have to say I believe that the average player has improved slightly since then and we’ve all become more educated due to the abundance of instructional material that is now available and also do to the amount of good players that are out there now. So I do think my rating chart may be a little too low (but not that much, any “C” player that wants to bet on a 60 or even a 50 for that matter has action) and I wish I would have said this a month ago because I have just shot the dam DVD to go along with the book and it’s out being duplicated right now and I made no mention of this during that section!
People should also know that I ran an actual handicapped league here in New England with multiple rooms involved in which each player from beginner to professional passed in 3 total scores (30 racks) per week over a 10-16 week period so I literally processed thousands of scores using this system that’s why I know it’s not that far off.
The pride of the league was that it had a 99% improvement rate, everyone that finished the league improved (a few people quit because I think their egos couldn’t stand to see the truth). Steve Tavenier was the only player to run 10 perfect racks but suffered a -2 for scratching in the 10th frame for a beautiful score of 98. That’s the goal for you, establish, then improve.
It’s also a good way for 2 players of different levels to compete once they have established handicaps. Player #1 averages 60, player #2 averages 30, each player shoots their own 10 racks which is good for the weaker player because usually in a match up like this player #1 would be doing much more shooting than player #2. We did it 2 ways, the first is best but it takes more time to figure. It’s based on percentage points if player #1 shoots a 54 they would receive 90% points because they shot 90 percent of their average (60) player #2 shoots their average of 30 and they receive 100% points, that’s basically how I ran the league along with some built in bonus points for higher rated players, again due to the law of diminishing returns. The second way is to simply see who scores plus or minus more. A 30 shoots 33 and they’re plus 3, a 60 shoots 64 and they’re plus 4 and the winner. In both cases it’s a lot easier for a lower player of 30 to put a game out of reach than it is for a 70 to shoot a 95 that’s why we had bonuses points built in and a cap of 135 maximum % points.
In any case I just wanted to put that out there and also to let you know you only spot balls on the break if you scratch on the break and if you make the 10 on the break or in a combo it doesn’t matter, it’s just another point. The only way to score 10 is to run 10.
When I started it about 15yrs ago I believe I was around a 40 or 45 and can now bet on 75, doesn’t seem like much of a jump for that amount of time but there is the law of diminishing return involved.
The book was put out in 1999 and was based on players that were playing then and probably the players I had seen over the previous 10 years and I do have to say I believe that the average player has improved slightly since then and we’ve all become more educated due to the abundance of instructional material that is now available and also do to the amount of good players that are out there now. So I do think my rating chart may be a little too low (but not that much, any “C” player that wants to bet on a 60 or even a 50 for that matter has action) and I wish I would have said this a month ago because I have just shot the dam DVD to go along with the book and it’s out being duplicated right now and I made no mention of this during that section!
People should also know that I ran an actual handicapped league here in New England with multiple rooms involved in which each player from beginner to professional passed in 3 total scores (30 racks) per week over a 10-16 week period so I literally processed thousands of scores using this system that’s why I know it’s not that far off.
The pride of the league was that it had a 99% improvement rate, everyone that finished the league improved (a few people quit because I think their egos couldn’t stand to see the truth). Steve Tavenier was the only player to run 10 perfect racks but suffered a -2 for scratching in the 10th frame for a beautiful score of 98. That’s the goal for you, establish, then improve.
It’s also a good way for 2 players of different levels to compete once they have established handicaps. Player #1 averages 60, player #2 averages 30, each player shoots their own 10 racks which is good for the weaker player because usually in a match up like this player #1 would be doing much more shooting than player #2. We did it 2 ways, the first is best but it takes more time to figure. It’s based on percentage points if player #1 shoots a 54 they would receive 90% points because they shot 90 percent of their average (60) player #2 shoots their average of 30 and they receive 100% points, that’s basically how I ran the league along with some built in bonus points for higher rated players, again due to the law of diminishing returns. The second way is to simply see who scores plus or minus more. A 30 shoots 33 and they’re plus 3, a 60 shoots 64 and they’re plus 4 and the winner. In both cases it’s a lot easier for a lower player of 30 to put a game out of reach than it is for a 70 to shoot a 95 that’s why we had bonuses points built in and a cap of 135 maximum % points.
In any case I just wanted to put that out there and also to let you know you only spot balls on the break if you scratch on the break and if you make the 10 on the break or in a combo it doesn’t matter, it’s just another point. The only way to score 10 is to run 10.
