10 ball, world skill level test, let's find out how players rate.

And this is PRECISELY why your test isn't accurate! I have run 7 racks of 9 ball in a row 3 time(2 on 9ft, 1 on BB) also have had times where I haven't missed a ball in 15 or so racks - broke dry a few times and opponent ran out.

If I put a run like this together for your test, it would be a few times, in a lifetime of playing pool. It is not an accurate assement of my playing and I would have no business WHATSOEVER competing with the likes of the top Fargo Rate players, who have over time and AVERAGE shown they are the best in the world.
Jason
I'll try and explain this to you in another light ok. Lets take bowling for example ok. To be a Pro bowler you have to maintain i believe a 220 or higher pin average, ok? Now lets say you and i went out bowling sometime when we were in our teens one day and while we've both bowled before, neither one of us had given much thought about bowling being in our futures. Though we only bowled one game, you beat me 219 to 82 and it's pretty clear i have no chance of beating you, so i just got a reality check as to bowling not being in my future as a way of making a living....but neither one of us was prepared for that old man that walked up to you and said, "hey kid, you ever thought of going pro?" I've been watching you from where i was sitting....and you have the makings of being a Pro, and with a little coaching you could make a living playing this game!! You respond back, awww man, I'm not that good, not good enough to go Pro....LOL....to which the old man replys back...you was only 1 point short of hitting 220 points, and that's the minimum score you need to go Pro, I'm telling you kid....with some coaching, you can make it into the Pro's, that's half the battle, the rest of the battle is learning how to win against the rest oc the Pro bowlers, but that's up to you kid, and how much you put into this game, the harder you work, the more it pays off!!!

So you see, my skill level test can actually reach that kid that's never played outside of the pool table in his parent's basement, and even though it's not a 9ft, the kid can still take a skill level test, look at his score and say....hey, not bad, I'm up there with the Pro's but it's just a quiet test, no one knows yet, but maybe his dad or mom was impressed enough that just to see for real, they try finding out where the nearest offici table is, so they can see if they have a child prodigy in their family.

While on the flip side of the coin, someone who's been playing pool for 20 years and has beat everyone around where he lives like they stole something, so much so that everyone keeps telling him he should turn Pro. My thoughts are that instead of him being another one of those dead money players....you know those players, they're the ones that put up the majority of the prize money for the players in the tournaments to get paid with, as very little money is actually added to the tournaments in the first place....yeah, the suckers, all those player's that think they have a chance, or the players that don't mind paying the entry fees just so they can get a hardon, and bragging rights because they got the chance to play against some REAL PRO'S, whereas the ONLY other way they'd get to play a Pro is by gambling with them...and trust me, THEN they want the weight of the world when it comes to getting their money's worth, because they're not just going to give it away....THEN they want a chance to WIN!! and will insist on getting a spot big enough to make what they then consider....an EVEN GAME!!!

No, I'd rather that 20 year player save his money by taking the skill level test on really any table, don't really matter at that point, because he may just lost a score right there in the middle of the pack, and get a reality check that didn't cost him a dime, NO he's no where near Pro level, and everyone he has been beating for all those years, just not all that good....and have no idea how good a player really has to play to even consider being a Pro....which unfortunately, is the major majority of the people playing pool today....but they DO have a very...very important role in this sport, it's called...."DEAD MONEY PLAYERS" because WUTHOUT them, there'd NEVER be any pool tournaments held anywhere!!!

So if tou can't see the skill level testing is completely different than the Fargorating system, try and look at it as a bowling score, from 0 to 300....what's YOUR game score big boy!!!
 
I can already see how this is going to turn out, Glens going to get rich off the glue sales and say hell with
a pool tour.
Glen don't care about getting rich, the only thing Glen cares about is his family first, fishing second....and giving something back to an industry that has supported me since September 1983. If i were to ever acheave my goals in this venture, i would without a doubt turn the control of this sport over to a WPC with all pool room owners, and pool players, as members....having voting rights over this sport and it's future, my ONLY reason to maintain some kind of behind the curtain control at that point in time, would be to make sure it don't EVER get derailed or sidetracked!
 
Let me tell ALL of you something. It's a lot easier to get the Pro's onboard to support my system than it is to get the amateurs to stand beside me an help me create a program in this sport that is fair to all those that love to play pool. Hell, all you have to do to get the Pro's in this sport to jump ship is be truthful with them....and PAY them what you SAY you'll PAY them, they'll play what ever the rules are, where ever the event is being held, and play on what ever pool tables I'm holding the event on. AND, in the event ALL players are getting PAID as I've already discribed, instead of walking, they'll come running!! And as each event gets bigger and bigger, and with the help of PPV, the prize money grows, that the players field grows, even more Pro's will come running to join....THEN i guess Fargorate can bet on ALL the matches, i don't really care at that point...LOL
 
The bottom line is, i want to see pool changed dor the good of all players, my glue sales is just my first attempt at trying to generate the income to start the begining of change, but it's not the only thing i have in the works, i have something else I'm working on as well, that if it gets accepted, it'll produce so much money to fund this sport it'll be a joke, and it has nothing to do with this industry, but it does have everything to do with the working public world wide.
 
I know a lot of people are sitting back talking about what kind of a dreamer i am, and what an idoit i am to even think i can attempt to change pool, but they really should realize something about me, when inset my sights and goals on something, I'm as persistent as a bulldog is trying to chew up a bone!! I have developed a industry leading way of installing cloth correctly on pool tables. I have designed and developed a world class ball polisher. I have designed, and produced my own line of coin operated pool tables. I have influenced a pool table manufacturer to, with my help and guidance, manufacture said pool tables, Diamond Billiards. I have influenced a pool table manufacturer into understanding that backing on slates is no longer necessary in order to install the bed cloth, Diamond Billiards again. I have influenced a major cloth manufacturer to show the world how to correctly work with, and install their product, to the loint that anyone can buy their cloth installation DVDs and learn first hand how to do professional cloth installations, Iwan Simonis. Don't knock me to bad for wanting to make a change in this sport for the better, as that's my next challenge.
 
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“All big things in this world are done by people who are naïve and have an idea that is obviously impossible.”

Frank Richards
 
And this is PRECISELY why your test isn't accurate! I have run 7 racks of 9 ball in a row 3 time(2 on 9ft, 1 on BB) also have had times where I haven't missed a ball in 15 or so racks - broke dry a few times and opponent ran out.

If I put a run like this together for your test, it would be a few times, in a lifetime of playing pool. It is not an accurate assement of my playing and I would have no business WHATSOEVER competing with the likes of the top Fargo Rate players, who have over time and AVERAGE shown they are the best in the world.
Jason

Jason, you doing the test for shits and giggles or not?
 
Jason, you doing the test for shits and giggles or not?

Don't play much anymore - poolroom is an Hour away and my new place didn't have room for the 10 footer. Think I've played 2 days total since July at Griffs. Played with Philly on here 1 day and a Total of 5hrs maybe between both days.

I'm afraid it would be a miserable failure, but I've never believed I could play with the pros even though I've had some fairly high runs.

With work I probably won't get to play much till November.

I do like how Fargo Rate works and think it is more accurate cause of the number of games, if you think about it that way, let's say your opponent is a 600FR and you(no FR) beat him 9 - 2 in a set you can look up the Fargo Rate that would predict that score and see what yours would be for that super small sample, even if you didn't have a Fargo Rate.

I do hope it works, or anything that helps pool. GL
Jason
 
Don't play much anymore - poolroom is an Hour away and my new place didn't have room for the 10 footer. Think I've played 2 days total since July at Griffs. Played with Philly on here 1 day and a Total of 5hrs maybe between both days.

I'm afraid it would be a miserable failure, but I've never believed I could play with the pros even though I've had some fairly high runs.

With work I probably won't get to play much till November.

I do like how Fargo Rate works and think it is more accurate cause of the number of games, if you think about it that way, let's say your opponent is a 600FR and you(no FR) beat him 9 - 2 in a set you can look up the Fargo Rate that would predict that score and see what yours would be for that super small sample, even if you didn't have a Fargo Rate.

I do hope it works, or anything that helps pool. GL
Jason

Trust me Jason, the minute i pull off my first event with 16 of the highest test score players on the list, and pay every player a total of $48,000, losing the first round still pays a guarenteed $1,000 per player, Pro's from all over are going to be throwing in their test scores so much so, that those first 16 players, may not make the cut to the next event, because as better and better players submit their scores, the bar to get picked as a player is going to get higher and higher.
 
Don't play much anymore - poolroom is an Hour away and my new place didn't have room for the 10 footer. Think I've played 2 days total since July at Griffs. Played with Philly on here 1 day and a Total of 5hrs maybe between both days.

I'm afraid it would be a miserable failure, but I've never believed I could play with the pros even though I've had some fairly high runs.

With work I probably won't get to play much till November.

I do like how Fargo Rate works and think it is more accurate cause of the number of games, if you think about it that way, let's say your opponent is a 600FR and you(no FR) beat him 9 - 2 in a set you can look up the Fargo Rate that would predict that score and see what yours would be for that super small sample, even if you didn't have a Fargo Rate.

I do hope it works, or anything that helps pool. GL
Jason
I could expedite my scoring system even faster if i have generated the prize money to pay out during an event, by adding an additional $48,000 to 1st- 16th place at the US Open 9 ball event, only requierment is to have a skill level test registered in my system, and place in the top 16. Younthink think Pat Flemming would turn away my added money maming the US Open a $98,000 added event? Hell, i could even do the samething with the DCC, you think Greg would tell me NO, I'm not letting you add $48,000 to my event!!
 
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I got a say I don't care for the Fargo rating system, just ask Donnie Mills they wouldn't
put in his numbers from the Derby City tournament. He played great and beat some of
the best.

But there's other reasons also.

And your rite Glen people will always dout someone who dreams big, I hope it works out
So pool will get better.
My daughter is 9 years old and plays on my home table and she's getting good, but as pool
is right now I would never want her perusing a career in pool. Golf now that's a different story
I'm about to start teaching her that, I've already been taking her to play putt putt golf and she loves it.
 
I got a say I don't care for the Fargo rating system, just ask Donnie Mills they wouldn't
put in his numbers from the Derby City tournament. He played great and beat some of
the best.

But there's other reasons also.

And your rite Glen people will always dout someone who dreams big, I hope it works out
So pool will get better.
My daughter is 9 years old and plays on my home table and she's getting good, but as pool
is right now I would never want her perusing a career in pool. Golf now that's a different story
I'm about to start teaching her that, I've already been taking her to play putt putt golf and she loves it.

That's all I've been trying to say, with 10's of thousands of skill level tests on file, and to draw upon, anyone taking the same skill level test on any pool table, ANYWHERE in the world....is going to get some kind of idea as to where they fit in on the curve, and to place somewhere in the middle is NOT a bad thing trust me. It's only a bad thing if you're excluded from having a chance to play in an organized world amateurs championship, starting in your local area first, then stair stepping up, the GREAT thing about the amateurs division is if there's no Semi-Pros or Pro's playing at the same level as they'll have their own division to compete in. And whether anyone wants to accept the facts, the fact is that's where Fargorate fails, and that's in identifying a players skills BEFORE they enter the tournament system. Further more, as the upper scale of the skill test becomes more and more refined, it's going to become quite clear to the world just how well a player has to pocket balls in order to be considered to play at a Pro level. And think about this for a minute, 4 quarterly 10 ball events, 4 quaterly 8 ball events, 4 quartely 9 ball events, 1 world 14.1 event, 1 world one pocket event, and 1 world bank pool event....all of which ALSO produce world reining challege matches, THEN throw in 4 tour stops for 10b, 8b, and 9b. If you're a crossover Pro, meaning you can make the cutoff score to play in ALL the events, you're going to be pulling in some serious income for the first time ever, all we need to do is start a program that leads in that direction, and get Joe Public on board. With Joe Public on board, and the money not being stolen, then multiple event centers can be set up around the world in order to support this sport, next thing you know, Pro's are earning a 6 or 7 figure income, getting endorsements from advertiser's outside of this industry, earning more income from them than they are earning playing pool....BECAUSE THEY'RE WORTH IT!
 
Glen, I have a suggestion for you. When you actually implement some of the changes you are planning for professional pool then people will take you more seriously. Just talking about it endlessly on here accomplishes nothing. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Less talk and more action should be your watchword now. Who really wants to take a test when there is no real reason to be taking it.

When I began creating pool tournaments with six figure prize funds 25 and 30 years ago, I just dug in and went to work, not really feeling the need to spend time explaining myself to anyone. When the players saw that these events were actually happening they jumped on board.

When you announce your first event I think you will also get a positive reaction. Until then it's just a lot of talk. Good luck to you! I hope you can make something happen.
 
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When I began creating pool tournaments with six figure prize funds 25 and 30 years ago, I just dug in and went to work, not really feeling the need to spend time explaining myself to anyone. When the players saw that these events were actually happening they jumped on board.

Jay, just out of curiosity, what happened to all those tournaments you were promoting, why did you quit? And when you say 6 figure tournaments, are you counting all the prize money, including the player entry fees? Or did you add 6 figure sponsorship? Reason I'm asking is because every tournament promoter seems to love promoting the GROSS amount of the prize fund, kind of as a way of obscuring the amount of money they're actually contributing to the event. Take the US Open 9 ball event for example. With 128 players at $1,000 each for entry fees, that comes up to $128,000 + $50,000 added, for a total prize money of $178,000. Is pool the only sport that funds their events primarily with the participants funds, or is there another sport being funded the same way pool is? Because my way of looking at it, is that pool tournaments are basicly nothing more than a ring game financed primarily with the entry fees of the participants. Don't you honestly feel this sport is being held back by always relying on the entry fees needed to fund ALL of the events that take place world wide?
 
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Jay, just out of curiosity, what happened to all those tournaments you were promoting, why did you quit? And when you say 6 figure tournaments, are you counting all the prize money, including the player entry fees? Or did you add 6 figure sponsorship? Reason I'm asking is because every tournament promoter seems to love promoting the GROSS amount of the prize fund, kind of as a way of obscuring the amount of money they're actually contributing to the event. Take the US Open 9 ball event for example. With 128 players at $1,000 each for entry fees, that comes up to $128,000 + $50,000 added, for a total prize money of $178,000. Is pool the only sport that funds their events primarily with the participants funds, or is there another sport being funded the same way pool is? Because my way of looking at it, is that pool tournaments are basicly nothing more than a ring game financed primarily with the entry fees of the participants. Don't you honestly feel this sport is being held back by always relying on the entry fees needed to fund ALL of the events that take place world wide?

Don Mackey came along! Or Don Maggot as he was affectionately called by others. After I ran the highly successful L.A. Open in 1992 (got TV sports coverage on five local channels and was in every area newspaper, plus we packed a double arena that had seating for 1500 people!) Don decided he wanted to be my partner next time and get half the action. He wasn't willing to put up any of the expense money (over 120K), only provide the players as his part of the deal. It would have been a pretty sweet arrangement for him, but I would be guaranteed to take a huge financial loss.

That tournament paid out 140K in prize money and that included 48K in entry fees. Earl won 21,000 and Peg Ledman got 10,000 for winning the women's division. When all was said and done I still lost over twenty thou, but every pool player got paid!

I produced the L.A. Open the following year and Mackey convinced many of the top players to boycott my event, to their chagrin. We paid out over 160,000 and Mark Tadd won 26K! After so many players who I thought were my friends and who I was trying to help turned their back on me, I made a decision to quit working so hard on their behalf. By the way, I had already produced several other major tournaments prior to the L.A. Opens with lucrative prize funds and everyone was paid immediately!

Glen, let me know how you make it after you do your first event please.

P.S. Glen, fyi every pro sport has entry fees, many much higher than in Pool!
 
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Don Mackey came along! Or Don Maggot as he was affectionately called by others. After I ran the highly successful L.A. Open in 1992 (got TV sports coverage on five local channels and was in every area newspaper, plus we packed a double arena that had seating for 1500 people!) Don decided he wanted to be my partner next time and get half the action. He wasn't willing to put up any of the expense money (over 120K), only provide the players as his part of the deal. It would have been a pretty sweet arrangement for him, but I would be guaranteed to take a huge financial loss.

That tournament paid out 140K in prize money and that included 48K in entry fees. Earl won 21,000 and Peg Ledman got 10,000 for winning the women's division. When all was said and done I still lost over twenty thou, but every pool player got paid!

I produced the L.A. Open the following year and Mackey convinced many of the top players to boycott my event, to their chagrin. We paid out over 160,000 and Mark Tadd won 26K! After so many players who I thought were my friends and who I was trying to help turned their back on me, I made a decision to quit working so hard on their behalf. By the way, I had already produced several other major tournaments prior to the L.A. Opens with lucrative prize funds and everyone was paid immediately!

Glen, let me know how you make it after you do your first event please.

P.S. Glen, fyi every pro sport has entry fees, many much higher than in Pool!

rofessional Golfer Pay to Play in a Tournament?
By M.L. Rose

Except at the highest levels, professional golfers must pay entry fees to play in tournaments. It may seem counterintuitive, but a player at the top of golf’s food chain often doesn’t have to pay an entry fee, because expenses for high-profile tournaments are covered by sponsors and TV networks. Entry fees often increase as you move down golf’s ladder of success, in part because the fees fund the tournament’s prize pool. All fees quoted below are current as of the date of publication
 
PGA Tour
A PGA Tour player who’s exempt from qualifying doesn’t have to pay entry fees for tour events. He does pay a $100 initiation fee, then $100 in annual dues. The only expense he must pay to play in a tournament is a mandatory $50 locker room fee. Most professionals competing in a pre-tournament qualifying event pay entry fees of $400 apiece, except for Champions and Nationwide Tour players ($100 each) and non-exempt PGA Tour members (no entry fee). If a player who is not a member of the PGA qualifies for a PGA Tour event, he must pay what the tour terms "limited dues" of $50, but he pays no other entry fee.
 
Already have the Fargo ranking system, similar to this. In the fragmented world of pool that we have today, surely we don't need yet another ranking method.
 
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