10 Useful Ways to AVOID A DOUBLE HIT Foul

dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
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FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates 10 useful and effective ways to avoid a double-hit foul when the gap between the cue ball (CB) and object ball (OB) is small. Check it out:


Contents:
0:00 Intro
0:27 1 - Angled Hit
0:44 2 - Short Bridge and Stroke
0:55 3 - Elevated Cue
1:47 4 - Tight Grip or Bridge
2:18 5 - Reverse Stroke
2:56 6 - Rail Hand Stop
3:53 7 - Sidespin
---- 4:39 - fouetté (whip) shot
6:26 8 - Use Light Grip and Wrist
7:19 9 - Near Horizontal Forearm
8:14 10 - Really Light Cue
9:22 Wrap Up
---- 9:58 - shot montage

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
 
I’m nearly of the opinion, that the ‘double hit’ foul should likely be eliminated. It causes more anxiety & controversy than almost any other rule.
At the risk of seeming rather hypocritical (traditionalist, against jump cues & templates), I recall that the game seemed more ‘fun’ when we were kids just learning to play and didn’t yet really know the rules. We never gave a second thought then to how close the CB & OB were. Some leagues now allow double hits if you shoot jacked-up. Before video slow-mo/replay, I noticed many such shots by the pros that went unchallenged, though the shooter likely knew he probably fouled. Maybe those leagues have the right idea (?).
 
DynoDan said:
I’m nearly of the opinion, that the ‘double hit’ foul should likely be eliminated. It causes more anxiety & controversy than almost any other rule.
At the risk of seeming rather hypocritical (traditionalist, against jump cues & templates), I recall that the game seemed more ‘fun’ when we were kids just learning to play and didn’t yet really know the rules. We never gave a second thought then to how close the CB & OB were. Some leagues now allow double hits if you shoot jacked-up. Before video slow-mo/replay, I noticed many such shots by the pros that went unchallenged, though the shooter likely knew he probably fouled. Maybe those leagues have the right idea (?).
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See my “Legal Fouls” Billiards Digest article (Nov ‘ 16). In Diagram 2, I show several shots that would be allowed if double-hit fouls were not enforced. I'm not sure we want to change the game like this, but it would allow some "creative" opportunities (some of which might be considered an abuse of a lack of rules).
 
dr_dave said:
See my “Legal Fouls” Billiards Digest article (Nov ‘ 16). In Diagram 2, I show several shots that would be allowed if double-hit fouls were not enforced. I'm not sure we want to change the game like this, but it would allow some "creative" opportunities (some of which might be considered an abuse of a lack of rules).
Click to expand...
If the rule is to be changed to allow two (or more?) tip-to-ball contacts, I think the wording is going to be difficult to get right. How far apart can the cue ball and object ball be and two contacts are still OK? Five inches? Any stroke that has continuous forward motion of the cue tip between all tip-ball contacts? Is trailing allowed?
 
Bob Jewett said:
If the rule is to be changed to allow two (or more?) tip-to-ball contacts, I think the wording is going to be difficult to get right. How far apart can the cue ball and object ball be and two contacts are still OK? Five inches? Any stroke that has continuous forward motion of the cue tip between all tip-ball contacts? Is trailing allowed?
Click to expand...

Agreed. Big can of worms.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If the rule is to be changed to allow two (or more?) tip-to-ball contacts, I think the wording is going to be difficult to get right. How far apart can the cue ball and object ball be and two contacts are still OK? Five inches? Any stroke that has continuous forward motion of the cue tip between all tip-ball contacts? Is trailing allowed?
Click to expand...

It would be like shuffleboard I suppose with players steering the cueball around the table. Could be fun after a dozen drinks.
 
dr_dave said:
... but the alternative (a whole new world of purposeful multiple hits, steering push shots, and extended-follow-through foolishness) could be dumber. o_O
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i dunno doc, if a guy ends up froze to the 8ball mid table and somehow makes it where he calls it, seems like he earned it to me. nothing easy about that situation
 
Texas Carom Club said:
i dunno doc, if a guy ends up froze to the 8ball mid table and somehow makes it where he calls it, seems like he earned it to me. nothing easy about that situation
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See the videos under "intentional miscues" on the miscue foul resource page. Also check out the shots in the videos on the push shot fouls resource page. And what about "scoop" jump shots? Do you really think we should allow all these types of shots in our game? Most of them are fairly easy to execute.
 
dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates 10 useful and effective ways to avoid a double-hit foul when the gap between the cue ball (CB) and object ball (OB) is small. Check it out:


Contents:
0:00 Intro
0:27 1 - Angled Hit
0:44 2 - Short Bridge and Stroke
0:55 3 - Elevated Cue
1:47 4 - Tight Grip or Bridge
2:18 5 - Reverse Stroke
2:56 6 - Rail Hand Stop
3:53 7 - Sidespin
---- 4:39 - fouetté (whip) shot
6:26 8 - Use Light Grip and Wrist
7:19 9 - Near Horizontal Forearm
8:14 10 - Really Light Cue
9:22 Wrap Up
---- 9:58 - shot montage

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...

People have been suggesting other ideas on YouTube and Facebook. I am keep a running list in the YouTube video description. Here's what we have so far:

More ideas to avoid a double hit:
- Hold your cue about an inch behind its balance point and hit the top of the CB using an open bridge. The cue easily pops up, clearing the double hit.
- Put your grip hand thumb through a belt loop to limit the cue's forward motion.
- Brace your grip hand behind and against your hip or body to limit and stop the forward motion of the cue.
- Illegal idea: Place the cue tip under the front edge of the CB and lift the cue straight up. Unfortunately, this is not a legal stroke (since the cue is not going forward in the direction of the cue).

Does anybody have any others to suggest?

Thanks!
 
Texas Carom Club said:
i always felt it was the dumbest foul there is.
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The people who played the "small" carom games figured out over 100 years ago that allowing "push shots" (double hits and frozen ball shots) was a really bad thing to do. Earlier carom rules allowed such shots. I suspect pool inherited the rule from carom.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The people who played the "small" carom games figured out over 100 years ago that allowing "push shots" (double hits and frozen ball shots) was a really bad thing to do. Earlier carom rules allowed such shots. I suspect pool inherited the rule from carom.
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but why do you think they thought it was a bad thing to do?
i mean the game is so "easy" for most to run out once gathered anyways or the crotching of balls
, how much more harm could come from a push?
just curious here
 
Texas Carom Club said:
but why do you think they thought it was a bad thing to do?
...
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I think that anyone who can run 30 occasionally at straight rail but not more will understand why push shots/double hits are a big thing. Very early on the carom people saw that it is better to keep the shots "clean". These days you are not even permitted to shoot into a rail the cue ball is frozen to at carom.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think that anyone who can run 30 occasionally at straight rail but not more will understand why push shots/double hits are a big thing. Very early on the carom people saw that it is better to keep the shots "clean". These days you are not even permitted to shoot into a rail the cue ball is frozen to at carom.
Click to expand...

im at the level where i can run a 20ish on a daily basis,
havent broke 30 yet however

its just a pain to hawk over especially for several back to back shots, super hard to see with the many small tap shots
but you feel it no doubt
 
It's one thing for children or rank novices not to get what a double hit is, but I have trouble understanding how so many grown men and women who play leagues and tournaments seem incapable of grasping this concept.
 
skip100 said:
It's one thing for children or rank novices not to get what a double hit is, but I have trouble understanding how so many grown men and women who play leagues and tournaments seem incapable of grasping this concept.
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I think the problem is that they have had bad advice.

I played in a tournament a long time ago where the eventual winner had been on the road with Lassiter. He played a clear double hit and felt it was not. In the discussion later, he said something to the effect that when the cue ball is close like that, it still has a lot of momentum that carries it through the object ball. Really. Since he had no idea what momentum is, further discussion was pointless. He really believed that a special law of physics applied to that situation.

I can't be too critical of him because I have believed such things myself. Because I learned pool from Willie's second book, I had a very bad understanding of throw. I believed that the cue ball and the object balls had different rules governing their behavior. It took me a long time to get rid of that stupidity. For that particular area, I would have been much better served by Joe Davis's books.
 
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