12" draw shot question

Gurnee_Steve

Gurnee_Steve

New member
Straight in shot. CB is 2 feet away from the OB and a nice easy stroke brings the CB back 12". Consider that the 'base'. Now, put OB 6 feet away from CB and to get the same 12" drawback you need to hit it harder to get the spin needed because some of it will 'wear off' as the CB moves down the table. Finally, put the OB and CB 6 inches apart. The same stroke will do you no good because there isn't enough room for the CB to get the spin going. To get the same 12" drawback you need to jack up on the cue and actally hit it easier.

Question: Is there any graphics that can show how the cue needs to be elevated and what speed stroke is needed on different length shots with varying CB-OB distances?
 
Don't elevate your cue....practice changing tip placement and see how that works out for you. JMHO This way you maintain a steady repetitive stroke vs knowing how "hard or soft" to stroke for changing distances.
 
Gurnee_Steve said:
Finally, put the OB and CB 6 inches apart. The same stroke will do you no good because there isn't enough room for the CB to get the spin going.
Click to expand...

???

That is absolutely not true, on multiple levels. The same stroke you used from 6 feet away will bring the CB shooting back at you with a lot of speed, provided you get your tip out of the way in time. And the CB doesn't need any room to get the spin going; it has all the spin it's going to have within 1/1000th of a second after tip contact.

-Andrew
 
Gurnee_Steve...You got good advice here already. For close up draw shots, adjust your bridge closer (and don't forget to adjust your grip up the same distance as you move your bridge up). You still finish your stroke, but because your hand is closer to the CB, the "followthrough" is, by nature less. This doesn't mean you get any less draw, as that is strictly dependent on stroke speed (and tip position)...not the distance the tip goes past the CB. Loose grip + slow backswing + quick stroke, to a natural finish = all the draw you want!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Gurnee_Steve said:
Straight in shot. CB is 2 feet away from the OB and a nice easy stroke brings the CB back 12". Consider that the 'base'. Now, put OB 6 feet away from CB and to get the same 12" drawback you need to hit it harder to get the spin needed because some of it will 'wear off' as the CB moves down the table. Finally, put the OB and CB 6 inches apart. The same stroke will do you no good because there isn't enough room for the CB to get the spin going. To get the same 12" drawback you need to jack up on the cue and actally hit it easier.

Question: Is there any graphics that can show how the cue needs to be elevated and what speed stroke is needed on different length shots with varying CB-OB distances?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Succcessfully controlling draw is a result of both speed of the cue, and tip placement on the cue ball. You can increase either speed, spin, or a combination of both to change the draw distance, i.e., hitting with more speed, or striking the ball farther below center. The greater the distance the cue ball is from the object ball, the more speed/spin is required for draw.

Elevating the butt of the cue more is absolutely not necessary.

Steve
 
tap, tap, tap!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Andrew Manning said:
???

That is absolutely not true, on multiple levels. The same stroke you used from 6 feet away will bring the CB shooting back at you with a lot of speed, provided you get your tip out of the way in time. And the CB doesn't need any room to get the spin going; it has all the spin it's going to have within 1/1000th of a second after tip contact.

-Andrew
Click to expand...
 
pooltchr said:
Succcessfully controlling draw is a result of both speed of the cue, and tip placement on the cue ball. You can increase either speed, spin, or a combination of both to change the draw distance, i.e., hitting with more speed, or striking the ball farther below center. The greater the distance the cue ball is from the object ball, the more speed/spin is required for draw.

Elevating the butt of the cue more is absolutely not necessary.

Steve
Click to expand...
If you're4 6" apart and you don't elevate the cue you'll double hit the CB on the followthrough.
 
Gurnee_Steve said:
If you're4 6" apart and you don't elevate the cue you'll double hit the CB on the followthrough.
Click to expand...

If you do not move your cue it sure will but if you get your cue out of the way its not problem... read what Scott Lee said... he knows his stuff
 
You should not hit the CB on the 6" draw because your followthrough should naturally be shorter then other shots.
 
Here's how I look at what's going on here. The more your asking the cue ball to do a longer the stroke and follow through is required. Move your bridge hand back a little and pull your cue back further to get the feeling. Shoot through the shot with a long level stroke. If you have trouble executing a long draw shot. Put the cue ball close and move back as you start getting better results. Don't frustrate yourself with the difficult things in the game learn to do them gradually.
 
Tom...I know you're a good player, and mean no disrespect. However, we teach our students that their 'natural' stroke is all that's needed, regardless of the distance to the shot. It's all about tip position, stroke speed, and someone's natural finish. You do not followthrough longer to get more draw...you stroke the CB at a higher speed, at the maximum draw tip position, and FINISH your stroke. My natural finish is about 5 inches, and I can draw the CB 10', or 2'with that same finish. I've seen some other players do it with a 2" finish...but that was their natural finish. I'm not saying you can't get it done the way you describe, but it's much simpler, and more accurate, the way we teach it.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com


tom mcgonagle]The more your asking the cue ball to do a longer the stroke and follow through is required. Move your bridge hand back a little and pull your cue back further to get the feeling. Shoot through the shot with a long level stroke.[/QUOTE]
 
Gurnee_Steve said:
If you're4 6" apart and you don't elevate the cue you'll double hit the CB on the followthrough.
Click to expand...

If you happen to be around any good instructor (for instance, the instruction room out in Vegas this May), ask any of the instructors to show you how you can get draw with the balls 6" apart without elevating your cue. Seeing is believing. If you happen to run into Scott or Randy, get one of them to show you how to do it with only 2 or 3 inches of separation between the balls.

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
If you happen to be around any good instructor (for instance, the instruction room out in Vegas this May), ask any of the instructors to show you how you can get draw with the balls 6" apart without elevating your cue. Seeing is believing. If you happen to run into Scott or Randy, get one of them to show you how to do it with only 2 or 3 inches of separation between the balls.

Steve
Click to expand...

I just set up two balls with exactly one ball gap between them and drew the length of the table three times in a row with a level cue. And I only tried it three times. It's really not hard.

1. Important - hit the cueball low

2. If you normally have five inches of follow through to your normal finish position, clearly you're going to have to sacrifice SOMETHING. One way to do it is to sacrifice your SET position and start the stroke an inch or so from your normal finish position. I have not practiced this, but I've seen people do it successfully (Randy G. is one example). Right now I leave my set position the same and sacrifice my finish position, and that works for me.

3. If you've ever been caught in a rip tide at the beach, you'll know what I'm talking about here. A rip tide is a narrow jet of water rushing out from the surf. Apparently it is common for swimmers to fight the rip tide by trying to swim along the line of it, i.e., towards shore. This is a mistake. If instead you swim sideways a couple feet, you're out of it. Piece of cake.

On these draw shots players frequently try to yank the cue straight back to get it out of the way of the oncoming ball. Rip-tide mistake! All you have to do is lift the stick at your bridge straight up, i.e., perpendicular to the direction of the ball, and you're out of the rip tide.

There's more time than you think because the cueball starts out spinning in place. A simple controlled motion works fine.
 
I seen or read about rolling your bridge hand after your follow thru on a very close draw shot. I don't remember who it was but it was from a one of the better instructors. If your bridge hand is your left hand you roll you bridge hand counter clockwise after the stroke to get it out of the path of the CB. Clockwise for a right hand bridge


I always get a good laugh when someone tells another player that the proper way to get a good draw is to snap the cue back because it helps to pull the CB. :shakehead: :shocked2: :scratchhead:
 
TheBook...We call it Pick or Roll. You can 'pick' up your bridge hand, or 'roll' your bridge hand out of the way! It still amazes me how many players (some very good) who still believe you have to "snap the cue back" (we call it cowboy lasso), to get the cb to draw well. Cowboy lasso is just one of several "stroke robbers"!:thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

TheBook said:
I seen or read about rolling your bridge hand after your follow thru on a very close draw shot. I don't remember who it was but it was from a one of the better instructors. If your bridge hand is your left hand you roll you bridge hand counter clockwise after the stroke to get it out of the path of the CB. Clockwise for a right hand bridge


I always get a good laugh when someone tells another player that the proper way to get a good draw is to snap the cue back because it helps to pull the CB. :shakehead: :shocked2: :scratchhead:
Click to expand...
 
mikepage said:
I just set up two balls with exactly one ball gap between them and drew the length of the table three times in a row with a level cue. And I only tried it three times. It's really not hard.

1. Important - hit the cueball low

2. If you normally have five inches of follow through to your normal finish position, clearly you're going to have to sacrifice SOMETHING. One way to do it is to sacrifice your SET position and start the stroke an inch or so from your normal finish position. I have not practiced this, but I've seen people do it successfully (Randy G. is one example). Right now I leave my set position the same and sacrifice my finish position, and that works for me.

3. If you've ever been caught in a rip tide at the beach, you'll know what I'm talking about here. A rip tide is a narrow jet of water rushing out from the surf. Apparently it is common for swimmers to fight the rip tide by trying to swim along the line of it, i.e., towards shore. This is a mistake. If instead you swim sideways a couple feet, you're out of it. Piece of cake.

On these draw shots players frequently try to yank the cue straight back to get it out of the way of the oncoming ball. Rip-tide mistake! All you have to do is lift the stick at your bridge straight up, i.e., perpendicular to the direction of the ball, and you're out of the rip tide.

There's more time than you think because the cueball starts out spinning in place. A simple controlled motion works fine.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Rep to you.
You can choke up on the cue, shorten your bridge the same amount, and your finish distance gets much shorter. There is actually a way to have set and finish at virtually the same place, and you can get some draw and still avoid a double hit, even at very close proximity to the ob. We call it the short finish.

Steve
 
Gurnee_Steve said:
Straight in shot. CB is 2 feet away from the OB and a nice easy stroke brings the CB back 12". Consider that the 'base'. Now, put OB 6 feet away from CB and to get the same 12" drawback you need to hit it harder to get the spin needed because some of it will 'wear off' as the CB moves down the table. Finally, put the OB and CB 6 inches apart. The same stroke will do you no good because there isn't enough room for the CB to get the spin going. To get the same 12" drawback you need to jack up on the cue and actally hit it easier.
Click to expand...
It depends on a number of factors. The first 2 being the speed of the cloth and the 2nd being how low you actually hit on the cue ball for your "base" shot. It is possible, under the right conditions, to hit the cue ball lower, and at the SAME speed as the base shot (from 6 feet away) and still get 1 foot of draw.

However, assuming you are shooting maximum draw on the base shot, and move the cue ball 3X as far away, you will need about 2X the speed. Give or take ;)

As for 6" away, you really don't need to jack up to draw 1 foot. But, depending on the difficulty of the pot, you might. There is no right or wrong here. As for hitting it easier, that all depends on the location you hit the cue ball.

Question: Is there any graphics that can show how the cue needs to be elevated and what speed stroke is needed on different length shots with varying CB-OB distances?
Click to expand...
I've never seen one, probably due to the inherent difficulty in generalizing a very user dependent effect.

-td
 
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