now I know traditionally the opening break is done using about 1 to 1:30 (top right outside english)on the cueball hitting about 1/4 of the corner ball comming two rails around and stopping at the opposite end of the table hopefully leaving your opponent with no shot and cueball snug up against the rail...i've also seen a couple of straight pool shooters using 5 to 5:30 (bottom right outside english)...I was also watching an old dvd of mizerak shooting against ortman and if im not mistaken mizerak was cueing low on his opening break as well when beginning his match...has anyone tried this with success and if so..would it prove to be more advantageous than cueing high with right english?..seems a bit unorthodox yet well worth trying...thoughts? opinions?
14.1--cueing on the opening break
- Thread starter BigAL
- Start date
Hussa,
im here with you
if a player (in this case a pro) hits the CB with low-english and he hits the *point* perfectly....it works for him. But my opinion is to play it always high/right or High/left. On extremyl good/new cloth i play it just center/right or center/left.
To hit it with lower english would cause a curve which makes it always more difficult to hit the point you want to hit.
Very underestimated shot anyway- you ll have to practice this shot really, too important .9
lg
ingo
im here with you
if a player (in this case a pro) hits the CB with low-english and he hits the *point* perfectly....it works for him. But my opinion is to play it always high/right or High/left. On extremyl good/new cloth i play it just center/right or center/left. To hit it with lower english would cause a curve which makes it always more difficult to hit the point you want to hit.
Very underestimated shot anyway- you ll have to practice this shot really, too important .9
lg
ingo
I've mentioned this exact thing before, thanks for starting a thread about it. Most recently, in the link posted of Daz and Schmitty at the DCC, Darren appears to use low outside on the opener. It was a very good break btw, leaving Schmidt with no open shot and the cue ball up the court by the head rail:
Opening break at 1:15
He certainly is not using high on the shot, just right if not low-right.
I've tried both but the problem I encounter using low is controlling the speed in order to freeze the cue ball on the head rail. It just seems easier with follow because the ball is rolling right away rather than skidding at first and scrubbing off speed as the draw diminishes.
I'm also not sure if there is a rule of thumb on hitting low in regard to what the CB should be doing when it makes contact with the corner ball i.e. still spinning from the draw, skidding, or rolling (having lost the draw and stun and started rolling before it contacts the OB).
Opening break at 1:15
He certainly is not using high on the shot, just right if not low-right.
I've tried both but the problem I encounter using low is controlling the speed in order to freeze the cue ball on the head rail. It just seems easier with follow because the ball is rolling right away rather than skidding at first and scrubbing off speed as the draw diminishes.
I'm also not sure if there is a rule of thumb on hitting low in regard to what the CB should be doing when it makes contact with the corner ball i.e. still spinning from the draw, skidding, or rolling (having lost the draw and stun and started rolling before it contacts the OB).
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Low or High
Very interesting post! Darren does appear to strike the CB low on the opening break. If not low then at least middle to middle low. Judging by the CB's reaction after striking the corner ball, it doesn't appear to have had any backspin left on it by that point.
Although right-handed I break using the left side of the rack. Don't ask, I just learned that way and I'm comfortable with it. I noticed Stephan Cohen opens his games in the same way, so that made me feel a bit happy.
I hit the CB with more 2 or 3 o'clock english rather than 1. My logic is that side spin will transfer better to speed off the rail. Which will then allow me to hit the CB softer, but yet still get it back uptable. Hitting it softer, naturally, will disturb the pile less. Also, with side spin the CB often tracks 3 rails rather than 2 on it's trip back uptable - sometimes leaving my opponent with a long opening shot from the side rail rather than the head rail - which is something I prefer. Good post!
Ron F
Very interesting post! Darren does appear to strike the CB low on the opening break. If not low then at least middle to middle low. Judging by the CB's reaction after striking the corner ball, it doesn't appear to have had any backspin left on it by that point.
Although right-handed I break using the left side of the rack. Don't ask, I just learned that way and I'm comfortable with it. I noticed Stephan Cohen opens his games in the same way, so that made me feel a bit happy.
I hit the CB with more 2 or 3 o'clock english rather than 1. My logic is that side spin will transfer better to speed off the rail. Which will then allow me to hit the CB softer, but yet still get it back uptable. Hitting it softer, naturally, will disturb the pile less. Also, with side spin the CB often tracks 3 rails rather than 2 on it's trip back uptable - sometimes leaving my opponent with a long opening shot from the side rail rather than the head rail - which is something I prefer. Good post!
Ron F
Everyone's stroke is different, naturally, so I think more of a center ball hit than a follow stroke for some works just fine. I can't imagine using a low ball hit. My preference is using high outside.
The most important thing is to go to the opposite long rail with the CB rather than just doubling the corner pocket and going directly up to the head rail.
Going to the other long rail turns that running english in to reverse off the third rail and allows the CB to float dead on the head rail.
I usually hit the breakshots pretty good. You must have a frozen back row and what I do is line up almost parallel to the outer ball on the rack.
My total concentration is focused on the other outside ball. I shoot envisioning that ball going out to the long rail and back into the rack. That works well for me.
The most important thing is to go to the opposite long rail with the CB rather than just doubling the corner pocket and going directly up to the head rail.
Going to the other long rail turns that running english in to reverse off the third rail and allows the CB to float dead on the head rail.
I usually hit the breakshots pretty good. You must have a frozen back row and what I do is line up almost parallel to the outer ball on the rack.
My total concentration is focused on the other outside ball. I shoot envisioning that ball going out to the long rail and back into the rack. That works well for me.
Ron, it is hard to tell from the video if the CB is rolling at impact with the corner ball, but if it is then I don't think he can be using much low ball. I've tried the shot and if I use any significant amount of low it is very difficult to hit it soft enough to have the CB rolling at impact yet still have enough oomph left to get back up field to the head rail.
Mitch:
Apologies for not seeing your question in the other thread earlier (i.e. the Darren/John video thread).
I do think you have a point with "follow" on the cue ball causing the corner ball to leak out like that (i.e. that a slight amount of draw is imparted to that corner ball). It seems to very slightly "draw out" from the rail, instead of going back into the pack.
I personally use just center outside on the opening break, nip the corner ball (don't hit it "too" full) and get it back up to the head rail -- as is the classic effort. I often practice this shot -- just rack the balls, and practice the opening break over and over.
One match that I consider exemplifies an absolutely perfect opening break, is the 1995 Maine Event match between Efren and Jim Rempe. Efren performed probably the most perfect break I'd ever seen -- both corner balls hit their respective cushion, and came right back into nearly their original positions in the stack. The first time I popped this match into my DVD player, I had to rub my eyes in disbelief.
-Sean
Apologies for not seeing your question in the other thread earlier (i.e. the Darren/John video thread).
I do think you have a point with "follow" on the cue ball causing the corner ball to leak out like that (i.e. that a slight amount of draw is imparted to that corner ball). It seems to very slightly "draw out" from the rail, instead of going back into the pack.
I personally use just center outside on the opening break, nip the corner ball (don't hit it "too" full) and get it back up to the head rail -- as is the classic effort. I often practice this shot -- just rack the balls, and practice the opening break over and over.
One match that I consider exemplifies an absolutely perfect opening break, is the 1995 Maine Event match between Efren and Jim Rempe. Efren performed probably the most perfect break I'd ever seen -- both corner balls hit their respective cushion, and came right back into nearly their original positions in the stack. The first time I popped this match into my DVD player, I had to rub my eyes in disbelief.
-Sean
No worries Sean, I think we've discussed this before in some older threads too.
Here's the video of Efren's opening break against Rempe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R1P8MDZpNk
I watched it a few times and it appears that like you were saying, Efren is using only side, maybe a touch of low, but he doesn't seem to be cueing for follow.
I noticed something in both Efren's and Darren's break that I'm going to try that may take care of the problem of having the OB I make contact with veer out into the open towards the side rail after coming off the foot rail. That is that in both these breaks they hit the OB thin enough that it doesn't really have enough speed to wander very far from the foot rail at all. And it really doesn't need to do anything more than make it to the foot rail since it is hidden from where the cue ball ends up. The plus to this thinner cut is that perhaps more energy gets transferred to the other corner ball, helping it return to the stack.
Watched that Efren break couple of times. Appears to me hit that corner balll rather full and I believe he gets a double-kiss right at the bottom of stack. Like the double kiss that happens when banking a ball that is barely off the cushion, and you cross over the face and get kissed 90 degrees into the corner.
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very helpful thread -- thank you all for the observations!
last week at the table next to me was a 9-ball player who when he saw me shooting 14.1 said "i haven't played straight pool in years, but used to be able to run blah-blah" and was boastful about his abilities in general. he finished by claiming he had the best opening break on the planet, could park the corner balls AND hook the CB in the corner pocket every time. yeah, right.
well, damned if he didn't then play 5 openings, and while the first one was totally pathetic, 2 of the next 4 were actually hooked in the pocket with no hope of doing anything but kicking to the rack. and he didn't scratch on any of them.
certainly he wasn't an amazing player in any other regard, pretty much a 9-ball bang 'em hard kinda guy. go figure.
last week at the table next to me was a 9-ball player who when he saw me shooting 14.1 said "i haven't played straight pool in years, but used to be able to run blah-blah" and was boastful about his abilities in general. he finished by claiming he had the best opening break on the planet, could park the corner balls AND hook the CB in the corner pocket every time. yeah, right.
well, damned if he didn't then play 5 openings, and while the first one was totally pathetic, 2 of the next 4 were actually hooked in the pocket with no hope of doing anything but kicking to the rack. and he didn't scratch on any of them.
certainly he wasn't an amazing player in any other regard, pretty much a 9-ball bang 'em hard kinda guy. go figure.
