14.1 Is Hard To Learn...NOT

[Nostroke]

Ill bet as of this minute, there aren't 2 people outside of the 14.1 forum that can tell you accurately what to do in ALL the rack end possibilities, CB in rack, Both balls in rack, OB on the headspot-CB in rack, CB on headspot, OB in rack, 15th ball pocketed, CB beyond head string etc.

In fact if i knew we could do it legit. Id give any forty people in here 5 minutes to study the subject and then I'll quiz them on the different situations even odds-all 40 must bet.

 

[Zphix]

I think 14.1 is fun - when I hit the poolhall I usually bust a few racks playing this because it flows very nicely in my opinion. Racks just seem to flow and transition into one another and it feels great.

It's not a hard game to learn, and it's only a hard game to play when it's with people who don't know how. I had a team mate break a 14.1 rack like 8-ball, had another friend try to sink the 15th ball, and had another friend take BIH after pocketing the 14th ball, etc.

Though, as Nostroke said I'm definitely one of the people who doesn't know everything about 14.1

 

[Johnnyt]

Ill bet as of this minute, there aren't 2 people outside of the 14.1 forum that can tell you accurately what to do in ALL the rack end possibilities, CB in rack, Both balls in rack, OB on the headspot-CB in rack, CB on headspot, OB in rack, 15th ball pocketed, CB beyond head string etc.

In fact if i knew we could do it legit. Id give any forty people in here 5 minutes to study the subject and then I'll quiz them on the different situations even odds-all 40 must bet.

You're probably right. I don't know what to do if the 15th ball is made. Johnnyt

 

[Nostroke]

You're probably right. I don't know what to do if the 15th ball is made. Johnnyt

me neither-- I dont know what to do in half the situations. and i didnt mean any of what i said contradicts your point. The hardest game to learn imo is bb 8Ball if you are below an open player.

 

[BasementDweller]

***OPINION ALERT*** I reserve the right to change my mind on anything I say as soon as my next post.


I think there's one thing that makes all of these arguments about which game is the hardest, or which game is the purist, or which games requires the most strategy, so hard to sort out and that one thing is the fact (IMO) that we can all acquire knowledge about the game of pool at a much faster rate than we can acquire to the technical ability to utilize this knowledge.

This is where there is often times a divide between the old-schoolers and the up-and-comers. The old-schoolers aquired knowledge and skills simultaneously. They didn't have a nearly infinite source of information, whether that be in book form, video, or instruction. Instead, they would just play and once their game was ready for new information it would find them. Many times this information would come from other players.

It's not like that anymore. Anyone who is hit with the REAL pool bug will also be hit with information overload. Once you have a thorough understanding of the nuances of english you can study this game day and night. If you watch enough one-pocket you can pretty routinely pick out the shots that even the top level players are going to shoot. Or at the very least you can come up with the same options as the commentator in the booth. 14.1 is very similar. I think it’s much easier to pick out the patterns than it is to actually make all the balls and get your cue ball where you want it to go. Calculus it is not.

The information is out there. The games can all be simplified if anybody has the desire to learn them. The hard part is having the skills to incorporate all this knowledge into your game.

So with that in mind, I agree with the original post. 14.1 is a great game but it's not nearly as mysterious of a game as it once was.

 

[ronscuba]

I just started playing in a 14.1 league and for me the most challenging part is the patience required when in a match.

I enjoy practicing 14.1 by myself, but playing matches has been frustrating. You can be sitting for a long time if your opponent is on a big run. You can also have your patience really tested if your opponent is playing defensively.

I can see myself continuing to practice 14.1, but I am not sure if I will return to the league. The slow pace of play, lack of a shot clock, and the large amount of defense is hard to deal with. I like 9 ball, so I guess I am one of those short attention span types.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Sigh.

 

[sfleinen]

I just started playing in a 14.1 league and for me the most challenging part is the patience required when in a match.

I enjoy practicing 14.1 by myself, but playing matches has been frustrating. You can be sitting for a long time if your opponent is on a big run. You can also have your patience really tested if your opponent is playing defensively.

I can see myself continuing to practice 14.1, but I am not sure if I will return to the league. The slow pace of play, lack of a shot clock, and the large amount of defense is hard to deal with. I like 9 ball, so I guess I am one of those short attention span types.

Ron:

I hear you. There are very few things more frustrating than an opponent that 1.) takes a long time deliberating over the table layout, then 2.) plays a safety anyway -- even when there's a very do-able [and rewarding] shot that he could take if he just buckled down on his cueing technique. E.g. a long shot, but if he makes it, he's rewarded with nearly automatic position for the next, or automatic position on an easy breakout ball into the pack. Instead, he deliberates for a long time, then plays a safety, gluing you to the pack or whatever. Grrr!!

The players I play with are not like that at all. Defense is one thing, but they definitely get called out on slow play. We like our 14.1 to have a cadence; a rhythm; even if the rhythm is a defensive shot. So I guess it's however those players were brought up in playing straight pool. We like to indoctrinate players here to engage brain cells immediately -- get those neurons firing -- commit to something, and then DO it. All in the span of what you'd expect when playing, say, 9-ball. The coffee pots here are constantly running, and the poolrooms I frequent make an excellent pot of NY coffee. We call it "journeyman juice."

Sadly, 14.1 is one of those games that is EASILY negatively affected by slow play. All it takes is one guy -- just one guy -- and the tension running through the night is so thick, you can cut it with a knife. Even players on other tables are affected, when Mr. SlowPlay is standing there at the table, contemplating, all the while blocking the aisle between his and the next table, holding up the other player.

I hope you decide not to abandon straight pool. Played right -- with a cadence -- it's one of the most rewarding games there is.

-Sean <-- loves one pocket, too -- played the same way, with journeyman juice

 

[RobMan]

You're probably right. I don't know what to do if the 15th ball is made. Johnnyt

Here ya go! Print it out and put it in your case. :thumbup:

 

[RobMan]

Ron:

Clip......
Sadly, 14.1 is one of those games that is EASILY negatively affected by slow play. All it takes is one guy -- just one guy -- and the tension running through the night is so thick, you can cut it with a knife. Even players on other tables are affected, when Mr. SlowPlay is standing there at the table, contemplating, all the while blocking the aisle between his and the next table, holding up the other player.

Couldn't agree more! I am not a very good player by any stretch, but I like the faster rythym, always have. Taking 3 minutes to play a safety? Don't think so.... :sorry:

 

[ronscuba]

Ron:

I hear you. There are very few things more frustrating than an opponent that 1.) takes a long time deliberating over the table layout, then 2.) plays a safety anyway -- even when there's a very do-able [and rewarding] shot that he could take if he just buckled down on his cueing technique. E.g. a long shot, but if he makes it, he's rewarded with nearly automatic position for the next, or automatic position on an easy breakout ball into the pack. Instead, he deliberates for a long time, then plays a safety, gluing you to the pack or whatever. Grrr!!

The players I play with are not like that at all. Defense is one thing, but they definitely get called out on slow play. We like our 14.1 to have a cadence; a rhythm; even if the rhythm is a defensive shot. So I guess it's however those players were brought up in playing straight pool. We like to indoctrinate players here to engage brain cells immediately -- get those neurons firing -- commit to something, and then DO it. All in the span of what you'd expect when playing, say, 9-ball. The coffee pots here are constantly running, and the poolrooms I frequent make an excellent pot of NY coffee. We call it "journeyman juice."

Sadly, 14.1 is one of those games that is EASILY negatively affected by slow play. All it takes is one guy -- just one guy -- and the tension running through the night is so thick, you can cut it with a knife. Even players on other tables are affected, when Mr. SlowPlay is standing there at the table, contemplating, all the while blocking the aisle between his and the next table, holding up the other player.

I hope you decide not to abandon straight pool. Played right -- with a cadence -- it's one of the most rewarding games there is.

-Sean <-- loves one pocket, too -- played the same way, with journeyman juice

We'll see. I joined the league because EVERYONE I've spoken with says it will make me a better player.

It's a singles league, so my mindset is I am there to learn. No teammates relying on me to win. I tend to take more risk because of this. What baffles me is people playing safe on reasonable breakout shots. They do it every time. How are you going to get better if you never shoot a breakout opportunity ? I guess winning is a bigger incentive than getting better for some people. 2 weeks ago I lost a 3+hr match. After the match my opponent said he played very defensively to wear me down. This week, same thing, a 3+hr match loss and I suspect intentional slow play. For example, why take your timeout immediately after I return from mine. Why not take it at the same time ?

Sorry Jude, maybe I am just ranting and being a sore loser. My wife is in her 3rd season and went through the same thing in her 1st season. She advised to be more patient and just defense them back.

 

[driven]

got it... thanks!

I guess the breakshot is the most important shot of the game.

If you are playing Thorsten, or John, or Danny,
the most important shot of the game is

The Next Shot.

don't miss it.
steven

 

[Mikjary]

The game requires alot of knowledge not passed down almost lost! They really need to get Ray Martin and document as much as possible! I would PAY big money for a well done Ray Martin TAR/Cleary made instructional video!!! I truly hope they read this.

Knowledge of WHERE the cue hits the stack is VITAL to the game. top of the ball in the stack versus bottom of the ball is the difference between scratching and continuing your run.

Another lost art is reading the balls in the stack and EXECUTING kisses, caroms & combo's all that vary based on speed, english & etc.

So, yes it is VERY difficult and with out an old timer well versed in this LOST art to take you under their wing it is EXTREMELY difficult to learn.

Sure run a few balls and get LUCKY. But eventually, the luck runs out and the two items mentioned above start to SHOW and your run is over!

KD

Well said! I played a lot of straights years ago. Nobody wants to play it anymore.

I got back after a 20 year layoff and noticed some changes. Maybe for the better or not. I noticed instead of breaking out a few balls, a lot of players blast the rack whenever they can. They turn the cue ball loose and completely rearrange the table. And I'm not talking just the average Joe. Some pros like to do this.

Nudging the balls to get a break ball seems to be a lost art. I watch many players shoot whatever's in front of them with no thought of a break ball until there's 3-4 balls left on the table. Affectionately known as massaging the rack, I rarely see this thought process anymore except from some of the top players.

As far as playing the grinders and their slow pace, it's a game where you sit a lot. If you can't turn it on and turn it off, you're in trouble. A good move is to get up and walk away from the table, out of sight of your opponent and get the blood flowing. It will also send a message that they're taking too much time between shots.

Best,
Mike

 

[Johnnyt]

The reason I started this thread was because I feel some of the reasons that 14.1 has declined to about no one plays it anymore is, 14.1 players make it sound too hard of a game. Not everyone needs to be a 100 ball runner to enjoy 14.1. Another reason for those that like to gamble on their skill in pool, 9 ball took that over and kept it since COM. I can remember matching up for the cash and playing all night long and sometimes into the next day. Also in todays fast pace, I want it now generation 14.1 needs a shot clock. Straight pool can be a great game to introduce the young or old to pool. I can remember, and a lot of you can too, when you started playing 14.1. The thrill of running 14 balls and breaking the next rack for a 20 ball or more run. The first time you ran 4 racks, the first 50 ball run and setting your sights on the prize...the 100 ball run. I love the game. Johnnyt

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

We'll see. I joined the league because EVERYONE I've spoken with says it will make me a better player.

It's a singles league, so my mindset is I am there to learn. No teammates relying on me to win. I tend to take more risk because of this. What baffles me is people playing safe on reasonable breakout shots. They do it every time. How are you going to get better if you never shoot a breakout opportunity ? I guess winning is a bigger incentive than getting better for some people. 2 weeks ago I lost a 3+hr match. After the match my opponent said he played very defensively to wear me down. This week, same thing, a 3+hr match loss and I suspect intentional slow play. For example, why take your timeout immediately after I return from mine. Why not take it at the same time ?

Sorry Jude, maybe I am just ranting and being a sore loser. My wife is in her 3rd season and went through the same thing in her 1st season. She advised to be more patient and just defense them back.

You know, I've been teaching people how to play pool for years and I have to say, the ones that always approach the table with their sights on pocketing balls ALWAYS improve faster than those looking for safeties. You see it with APA 8ball players a lot. You can win a lot of games learning how to play safe but never develop the skills to truly improve as a pool player. You just sort of hover in that realm of mediocrity, never seeing your game elevate to the next level. The ones that are going for it over and over again, they're paying the price today for wins tomorrow.

 

[duckie]

We'll see. I joined the league because EVERYONE I've spoken with says it will make me a better player.

It's a singles league, so my mindset is I am there to learn. No teammates relying on me to win. I tend to take more risk because of this. What baffles me is people playing safe on reasonable breakout shots. They do it every time. How are you going to get better if you never shoot a breakout opportunity ? I guess winning is a bigger incentive than getting better for some people. 2 weeks ago I lost a 3+hr match. After the match my opponent said he played very defensively to wear me down. This week, same thing, a 3+hr match loss and I suspect intentional slow play. For example, why take your timeout immediately after I return from mine. Why not take it at the same time ?

Sorry Jude, maybe I am just ranting and being a sore loser. My wife is in her 3rd season and went through the same thing in her 1st season. She advised to be more patient and just defense them back.

14.1 is also a game of patience.

I became a outstanding safety player because of players above. I learned to out safety them,to out last them.

These players are using your impatience against you., just return the favor.

The point is to win, not how fast you play. If they win because of your impatience, who has the problem. Just because some have a unwritten rule about playing a certain speed, that doesn't mean you have to.

It takes all kinds to play, you just have to figure the kind you are playing and then play accordingly.

Or get real good a reading the rack. Some of those safety players forget about that. There are times when someone thought they had a lock on me, only to have me find a shot buried in the rack.

Safety play in 14.1 is just as important as pocketing balls. It truly is a art to leave no shot on the table when there are many balls on the table and all are legal.

Just do it better than the person you are playing.

 

[sfleinen]

To this:

14.1 is also a game of patience.

I became a outstanding safety player because of players above. I learned to out safety them,to out last them.

These players are using your impatience against you., just return the favor.

The point is to win, not how fast you play. If they win because of your impatience, who has the problem. Just because some have a unwritten rule about playing a certain speed, that doesn't mean you have to.

It takes all kinds to play, you just have to figure the kind you are playing and then play accordingly.

Or get real good a reading the rack. Some of those safety players forget about that. There are times when someone thought they had a lock on me, only to have me find a shot buried in the rack.

Safety play in 14.1 is just as important as pocketing balls. It truly is a art to leave no shot on the table when there are many balls on the table and all are legal.

Just do it better than the person you are playing.

We say, this:

You know, I've been teaching people how to play pool for years and I have to say, the ones that always approach the table with their sights on pocketing balls ALWAYS improve faster than those looking for safeties. You see it with APA 8ball players a lot. You can win a lot of games learning how to play safe but never develop the skills to truly improve as a pool player. You just sort of hover in that realm of mediocrity, never seeing your game elevate to the next level. The ones that are going for it over and over again, they're paying the price today for wins tomorrow.

And I 100% agree with Jude. Those that are willing to take a chance, rather than "ducking," come the real rewards, which is an improvement in their game.

However, I will say that duckie's got a point in reading the rack, and seeing hidden shots that are there. That's where the real "upender" comes to those that like to safe you all the time. It short-circuits that safety play real quick!

-Sean

 

[Banks]

And I 100% agree with Jude. Those that are willing to take a chance, rather than "ducking," come the real rewards, which is an improvement in their game.

However, I will say that duckie's got a point in reading the rack, and seeing hidden shots that are there. That's where the real "upender" comes to those that like to safe you all the time. It short-circuits that safety play real quick!

-Sean

Yeah, but..

If you can't run when you know it's time to..

 

[ronscuba]

Thanks for the advice.

Although I am ranting, *****ing, whining and complaining, my overall mentality is a loss only makes me stronger.

Learn from the loss, play the table, an opponent may try to frustrate or shark me, but if I am better than them, it should not matter. The table, balls and pockets don't know or care who is hitting them.