14.1 players and the 9 ball break wing ball

iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
14.1 players, how does the wing ball go in a 9 ball rack? I know the tangent line does not line up such as it would in a 14.1 dead ball within a cluster. Do the balls near the wing ball move in such a way that they then form a tangent line directly to the corner pocket?

Is there any high speed photography showing what happens? I check Dr Daves site, and did not find any.

I put this in the 14.1 section as I believe the cluster reading knowledge of this group is strongest.

Thoughts?
 
Well I sure wouldn't take this as gospel, cause I dont know for certain and if the bamboo shoots are only an inch or so long, I'd rather have them driven under my fingernails than play rotation pool :) but..

I would say the force of the break isn't distributed and directed solely to the wing ball lying on that tangent line. Rather the force moves multiple balls and shifts the ball position, tangent angle and entire rack of balls. Small spaces add to the variables and direction of forces.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :thumbup:
 
wing ball prob

I still enjoy ten ball and or full rack rotation, in relation to your question about the corner or wing ball the 90 lines up just above the corner pocket. This is the 90 degree angle (some refer to it as the tangent line) The reason they break soft and with a touch of bottom on the white is to give this wing ball a bit of top. This allows the corner or wing ball to drop down a bit - so it makes every time if racked up correctly. With a new set of balls there is no way to stop a player from making the corner ball every time in 9 brawl' if the player can rack for himself. The only conclusion to arrive at for me is that the diamond configuration of nine ball is the wrong way to play rotation, better off playing ten ball. Soft speed and low spin plus a little knowledge about clusters and you can free up the wing ball every time in the nine brawl'. Here are a few options they have tried to correct the redundant wing ball problem associated with 9 ball. Rack your own = wing ball every time to the point of being redundant. Loser rack = constant arguing between players (like I saw on the men's pro 9 ball tour) and of course racking the 9 on the spot = then the 1 ball will go in the side almost every time. All options cry out for ten ball to be the correct way to play rotation - pro or amateur status should not matter cause it is only one more ball to run. There was a fellow on this forum who was advertising a 9 ball tournament in Canada, he asked where are all the Americans. I stated that the game should be ten ball, I thought more players would attend, he responded with a discordant note saying I should not bash nine ball tournaments. Then he later wrote a pm to me stating that he too agreed with me bout the wing ball issue in 9 ball and that ten ball would eliminate a great deal of conflict involving the rack BUT that I should not knock' other promoters tournaments. I guess I was either being too honest for him OR not being politically correct enough. I saw the pro players back in the early ninety's constantly arguing bout the corner ball and the fans who paid their $ get up and leave once they saw the arguing. I would even go as far as to boycott any independent promoter who would rather host a nine ball event over a ten ball. The fans that would rather see a fight should go to an MMA contest in my view.
 
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iusedtoberich said:
14.1 players, how does the wing ball go in a 9 ball rack? I know the tangent line does not line up such as it would in a 14.1 dead ball within a cluster. Do the balls near the wing ball move in such a way that they then form a tangent line directly to the corner pocket?

Is there any high speed photography showing what happens? I check Dr Daves site, and did not find any.

I put this in the 14.1 section as I believe the cluster reading knowledge of this group is strongest.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Here's a test you can do that will start to illustrate the complexity of multiball situations:

Make a four-ball diamond rack, but put the head ball on the center spot and "point" the diamond at a side pocket. (Details if that is not clear enough: use the 1, 2, 3 and 4 balls. Put the one ball on the center spot -- many people have no idea there is a center spot on a pool table, but there is, just where the blue spot is on a snooker table. Freeze the 2 and 3 to the 1, with the line of the 2 and 3 up and down the table. Freeze the 4 to the 2 and 3. If you have done this correctly, the line of the 1-4 is from side pocket to side pocket.) Make sure all of the balls are frozen to each other. Really frozen. If you have never tapped balls in place to freeze them together, now is a good time to learn how. Or, you can use donuts. When you have the balls really, really frozen, shoot the head ball (1) at the back ball (4) and see where the back ball goes. Also notice where the other two balls go. Try the shot from different angles.

This is a simpler situation than the full nine ball rack and quicker to set up a fully frozen rack. It is easier to note how various changes, such as not having balls frozen or shooting from different directions on the head ball, change the outcome.

The bottom line is that if balls are really frozen, there is no obvious way to predict where they will go -- too much is going on among the balls. You may also want to look up the "10-times-fuller" system of aiming frozen ball kiss shots.

Make sure all the balls are frozen for most of your tests.
 
Bob, I tried what you suggested. It seemed like it was fairly repeatable from attempt to attempt. But other than shooting the straight ahead version, I was not able to predict where the balls would end up with other angles of attack.

Video below:
http://youtu.be/PpBni7utsuM
 
iusedtoberich said:
Bob, I tried what you suggested. It seemed like it was fairly repeatable from attempt to attempt. But other than shooting the straight ahead version, I was not able to predict where the balls would end up with other angles of attack.

Video below:
http://youtu.be/PpBni7utsuM
Click to expand...

Oops. I left out that you were supposed to shoot the shot with the cue ball. Also, carefully mark with other balls or ghost-ball cutouts near the cushions the kiss lines for the wing balls so you can easily see if they go along the kiss line.

For fullness on the one ball, try cases out to shooting it straight into the 2 or 3.

Thanks for doing the experiment and posting.
 
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