14.1 Rules Question, from The Twilight Zone

Texdance

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14.1 Rules Question, from The Twilight Zone, Friday, October 13, 1961
(just 18 days after The Hustler was released on September 25, 1961)

see the episode here:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/440810

Do the rules of 14.1 allow a player to shoot at the last ball of the last rack, without racking up the other 14 balls, when both players are tied and each need only one ball to win? This happened recently, in a fateful match in The Twilight Zone.

Back on October 13, 1961 an episode of The Twilight Zone called "A Game of Pool" aired. It starred Jack Klugman as Jesse, a pool player convinced he is currently "the best cue on Randolph Street", and Jonathan Winters as the well-known champ "Fats" Brown, whose photo on the wall proclaims him the best.

Fats (Winters) can't defend his reputation in person because, well, he's dead. Been dead. Over 15 years dead.

On the night in question Jesse (Klugman) is alone in the pool hall, a small room that looks like every tiny going-to-seed pool room of small town America in the late 50s. There are a couple of pool tables, a billiard table, powder dispenser and house sticks on the wall, some snacks, photos of some basketball play, "Fats Brown" the champ, and a horse's head.

Jesse starts the show all alone in the pool room, looking things over with a big smile, talking to himself and admiring a great shot he just made, talking up his own skill, then going to Fats picture on the wall to say "I'd give anything for just one game with you, I know I could beat you, then people would quit saying "your pretty good, Jesse, but Fats is better, Fats is the best!"

Well, this being the Twilight Zone, Jesse gets his wish - Fats is called back from his pool table in cloudy Purgatory and shows up to offer Jesse the big game he wanted, with a twist. Jesse seems pretty confused by everything that's happening, but they go back and forth and finally make a game of 14.1 to 300 points. The stakes are high: Jesse gives up his life if he loses, but if he wins, he'll live and be recognized as the best, better even than old Fats Brown ever was... that's an enticement Jesse just can't pass up.

They play. Some of the shots are corny - there's a huge miscue made simply for dramatic effect. Jesse shoots (and makes) a three-rail shot into the side, despite having easier shots in front of him. Fats acts as if he is about to school young Jesse, but instead he jacks up the butt of his cue and bounces whitey down table, missing his OB a mile and opening up the rack for Jesse.

Needless to say, the match goes back and forth but finally edges down to the wire, score 299 Jesse, 296 Fats. With 4 balls left on the table, Jesse is lining up an easy corner pocket shot for his life and all the marbles. Here's where it gets interesting, or maybe confusing I should say. Fats sharks Jesse, actually seems to jiggle Klugman's cue, which makes him miss his game-winner ball #300, then Fats razzes him saying 'a little talk, a little gamesmanship, and you go all to pieces"... It's Fats turn now - he runs the next 3 balls, then for some reason he does not re-rack when he is supposed to, before shooting at the last ball of that rack. Instead Fats shoots at the last ball alone on the table by itself, now his winning ball #300 - and he dogs it, missing a one-rail bank in the corner.

Jesse is back shooting, again at the lone last ball, his game-winner #300. I still can't figure out why there is no re-rack to bring the other 14 balls up as I think should have been...

Leaving out the question of how many fouls it would take to get a score of 299-299 and one ball left on the table, would the normal 14.1 rules say to rack 'em after making the fourteenth ball of a rack, even though each player only needs to pocket that last ball of the last rack to win the match?

I'll leave off the usual Twilight Zone ending, suffice it to say Fats finally gets to go enjoy some fishing in his afterlife, instead of sitting alone at a pool table in cloudy gray Purgatory, waiting for some arrogant young hustler to call him down to earth time after time after time...

They packed a lot of entertainment in 24 minutes and 52 seconds of black-and-white television back in the late 50s and early 60s. Check out most any episode of The Twilight Zone, early half-hour episodes of Gunsmoke, Tales of Wells Fargo, Have Gun, Will Travel, and The Real McCoys. The performances were delivered solid and tight, the staging was usually first rate, and the actors generally were already well on their way to big careers, or about to take off to stardom.

See it for yourself on Hulu at:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/440810
 
As far as I know, you must rack the 14 balls....
...after all, if you miss, you may break the pack.
 
Repeat after me, dramatic effect... it's fiction - NOT a documentary.

Dale

They should still be aware of the rules.

Nobody wants to see Ben Hur with a '58 Mercury in the background.
 
They should still be aware of the rules.

Nobody wants to see Ben Hur with a '58 Mercury in the background.

Why - and why did you assume they didn't know the rules.

Did I mention the part about dramatic effect?

Dale(travelling billiard critic)
 
Maybe you'll like the remake...
..shooting the last ball makes more sense here....
...the game is rotation.

And the ending is different...more to the original script, we're told.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...=z_AzLKPQHqhqrKSeXRApvg&bvm=bv.93564037,d.aWw

Ok, let me get this straight...

You have NO PROBLEM with a fantasy world where a dead pool champion
has to defend his title in some imagined after life.. but the fact that they did not
rack the balls makes you loopy.

Do you have any experience with pool as played by the dead?

Dale(brain dead doesn't count)
 
Ok, let me get this straight...

You have NO PROBLEM with a fantasy world where a dead pool champion
has to defend his title in some imagined after life.. but the fact that they did not
rack the balls makes you loopy.

Do you have any experience with pool as played by the dead?

Dale(brain dead doesn't count)

I've gambled with a few people that didn't know they were alive..
...does that count?

And ,yeah, if you can make things more authentic at no extra cost,
then why not do it?

I don't want to see a pro golf movie with drug store golf balls either.

If they had used a Budweiser cue with a ramin wood shaft in the
Color of Money....I would've freaked!!!!!!!!!!!:angry:
 
I don't want to see a pro golf movie with drug store golf balls either.
:

What about the Happy Gilmore running golf swing?
I know that when I tried that particular swing not only did I whiff, but I hit the dirt too, ass first!!! :rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
 
I've gambled with a few people that didn't know they were alive..
...does that count?

And ,yeah, if you can make things more authentic at no extra cost,
then why not do it?

I don't want to see a pro golf movie with drug store golf balls either.

If they had used a Budweiser cue with a ramin wood shaft in the
Color of Money....I would've freaked!!!!!!!!!!!:angry:

Once again, documentaries are supposed to be authentic, dramas are not
required to be.

Dale
 
What about the Happy Gilmore running golf swing?
I know that when I tried that particular swing not only did I whiff, but I hit the dirt too, ass first!!! :rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:

Saturday morning at the golf course a few years ago...
Four foursomes waiting to tee off....
...two novice women are up....
The first woman completely misses the ball ....seven times in a row.

The waiting golfers are trying to be polite...and hide their embarrassment for her....
...but a guy from the back of the crowd had to ruin it....
...he said "Tough course, ain't it, lady?"

When the ladies finally got halfway to the green, the waiting golfers started laughing so
hard they were crying....
...the ladies probably wondered what all the fuss was about.
 
Of course you rack the balls! Suppose the last ball is jawed up and a straight through object and cue balls runs through the rack. You really want to leave the rack off the table for that?
 
What pool player won a bet that he could drive a golf ball over a mile ?
Do you mean the one who chipped a ball onto a ferry departing for the other side of Lake Michigan?

Which reminds me of a Ty Thompson story in the recent book by Kevin Cook. He bet a guy he could flip most of a deck of cards under a closed door and skip them up into a hat on the other side of the door. He finally bet on 50 out of 52. He got all the cards under the door, which is already no mean feat, and then when they opened the door and looked in the hat, there were 50 cards.

What the client didn't see is that for most of the skipping Hubert Cokes was by the hat to make sure the cards ended up in it. He snuck out the window for the last two cards.
 
No, he hit the ball on a frozen lake. He is also a famous for playing pool with a broom.
 
They should still be aware of the rules.

Nobody wants to see Ben Hur with a '58 Mercury in the background.

They don't really care. If you saw the Baltimore bullet at one point in the tournament Mosconi is doing the commentary. The kid calls three different balls at the same time. They are playing 14.1 btw.

Mosconi turns to the other guy in the booth and says "Kind of a risky shot". Mosconi was the the tech advisor on the movie. You would wonder why he would allow such an obvious error and worse be the one who made the comment.

Then of course we have "The Hustler" where Newman actually shoots a ball in the his cue tip instead of the cue ball, an old trick shot that Mosconi must have set up for them, as Gleason says "Nice shot". . . WTF??????

In the movie "The Scout", in the end Brandon Fraser throws nothing but strikes, for 9 straight innings with no one even hitting a foul. As ridiculous as it was, at least it could actually happen.
 
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... The of course we have "The Hustler" where Newman actually shoots a ball in the his cue tip instead of the cue ball, an old trick shot that Mosconi must have set up for them, as Gleason says "Nice shot". . . WTF??????
I took Fats' smile after that shot to mean, "Well, I guess I can do those shots too, young man." Or maybe it was just an inside joke for pool players.
 
I took Fats' smile after that shot to mean, "Well, I guess I can do those shots too, young man." Or maybe it was just an inside joke for pool players.

Pool is so fascinating there are endless things you can do that are ligit. Also in the Hustler Mosconi even had him do the 2 ball masse shot at the corner. Why??

I did some shots for a movie and I set up real shots that the actress could make that looked really cool and were legal. No trick shots other then billiards and combos. I had built them a table with a light plywood top so the table could be flipped over in a fight but even so you could actually play on it. That is how I became involved when they saw me play on the table.

COM at least stayed within the realm of reality with the pool. The hustling sequences were silly but the pool was fine. A nice change for pool in movies.
 
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