1970' Richard Black question

B

BKB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just bought this cue. Mr. Black said that it is a "Six Windows" form 1977-78. The cue is signed, which is pretty rare for 1970's, or that is what I read... I already have a R.Black player, so I was thinking of trading this one for something different.

The question is, should I have it restored by Mr. Black or just let it be. Will restoration kill value or increase it? If I should restore it, what would the approximate value be after restoration?

The condition is pretty bad with the finish flaking off and the wrap feeling rough and dirty. Butt is straight. Only one shaft, which is not perfectly straight and needs a ferrule. Thank you in advance for your response.

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If the finish over the wood sections of the butt is still there and relatively intake, leave it. If it is not and worn off, then consider refinish if you're going to play with it. A wrap can be professionally cleaned without replacing it if its not damaged. The major question is whether the finish itself is relatively intact.
 
mamono said:
If the finish over the wood sections of the butt is still there and relatively intake, leave it. If it is not and worn off, then consider refinish if you're going to play with it. A wrap can be professionally cleaned without replacing it if its not damaged. The major question is whether the finish itself is relatively intact.
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Finish is very bad. It is flaking off all over the place. On the sleeve it is almost all gone (about $75% off). The finish on the forearm is also in a bad shape. Especially over the veneers. This cue went through a lot, it seems.
 
Just send it to me and you won't have to have all those worries.




















































Seriously, pm me with an asking price.
 
great idea :-)

Nature Boy said:
Just send it to me and you won't have to have all those worries.

Seriously, pm me with an asking price.
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Good idea, but I think: "nah, I would rather keep it"

I do not want to sell it. Would trade it for another custom of the same or higher level. If you have something for trade, let me know. But I want a true custom, no Meucci, McDermott, Adam, etc. please.

Unless traded by Fri., it is going to Humble, TX for a refinish/re-wrap (I am thinking black leather) and a new shaft.

Mamono, thank you for a straight answer. Thank you all for interest.
Karl.
 
R. Black 2009 Hall of Fame

Richard Black is one of the most famous cuemakers.
If the cue is "All Original" it would be worth more..
Would you paint an "ALL Original '57 Chevy?
Same thought.
If you do restore it.
The Original cuemaker would be the "Reference Standard" to do this. (Keeping it "untouched by others")
It's best to sell it as "All Original" and let the new owner decide if he wants it refurbished.
Just my thoughts..
YMMV

Alton
 
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Now I am lost. I was told that this cue would sell for more if refinished and with 2 shafts. The estimate when refinished and with 2 shafts was $1300. I really do not want to spend over $500 on refinish just to kill the value + any chance to get out of this cue the $ I would have in it. By the time I am done I would have like $1350 in the cue. I do not mind loosing $50 - 100 on the trade, but if it is more than that...

I need more opinions! Please help!
 
People also argue that if the original cuemaker is still able to do the work, it should only be that cuemaker who should touch it. Once that cuemaker retires, then your only options are a master cuemaker or the apprentice of the original cuemaker. A finish helps protect and preserve a cue. If 75% or more of that finish is gone, it has done its job. Now that cue is susceptible to moisture and damage direct to the wood. It depends on the collector and the cue. There are various sides to the camp. I, for one, would want to preserve the cue and have only the original cuemaker work on it. If you do decide to get a restoration/refinish, make sure to get a receipt as proof that the work was done by the original cuemaker.
 
thank you for your replies. I was planing to send it to Mr. Black. After all, who can better restore it than the original builder? Cannot keep it in the original condition. Did not receive any trade offers I like for it in this condition. Will try again when it is refinished. Will post the after pictures. Thank you all.
 
Re:Black cue:

For the best answer ask Richard himself. I have several of his cues which I had him make for me. His shop in Humble is as impressive a his cues and my dealings with Richard have always been satisfactory.
 
Richard Black cues are not generally considered premier cues (some rare exceptions), and getting it refinished will not negatively affect value.

I have owned a few, and most cues like this one a refinish will do nothing but increase saleablity.

I tend to buy cues that need a refinish at lower cost if I can see that I can get it refinished or another shaft made, etc. and then turn a profit. Most buyers want a cue in the 95-100% condition and dont have the patience or desire to get it refinished themselves.

By doing this I have been able to continue to make money in cues, even in this poor market.

As far as needing to send it to the original buyer,,,,silly in most cases. IMO, most cuemakers overcharge for refinish and their work is NOT superior to several of the refinishing guys. Szamboti, Balabushka, etc, yep send them to top of the line guys.

I bought a Pfd cue from Paul years ago, I called him about a refinish on it, and I think he wanted like $400. Now come on, I sent it to Scot at Proficient, and the result was better than the finish from Paul and for less than half the price. Tad was the same thing. IMO the guys giving you this advice to send back to orginal maker really dont do alot of it.

Ken
 
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Thank you Ken. Kinda thought that a 1978 signed R. Black would be more desirable than his modern lines. The refinish by Mr. Black costs $290 which includes the leather wrap. I will go with it and see how the cue turns out.
Thank you again. Karl.
 
refinishing continued

Yes....PLEASE let us know how the finish looks.....PLEASE inspect carefully for dust bumps and how the finish is at the ends , near wrap, butt cap, joint, areas of that nature......Richard Black is a nice guy and the best at creativity.....but..but....I saw some of his finishes on new cues....and to me, there were flaws........so I agree with above commenter.....not always best place for refinishing.......refinishing shops take pride in getting "it right" thats the bread of their business......Richard makes cues for thousands of dollars...thats his bread....refinishing is more of a service for him, than an art form like designing cues. ..
 
continued Refinish Black Cue

if I was in the market for this cue..I would prefer it ORIGINAL....no matter how bad the finish.....Now, because it is old, this cue could have been refinished 12 years ago....at half of its life......and worn thinking it is still original finish.......I speculate this because I have several Black cues and if you look at other Black Cues,...your signature is very different.....also missing a date, which Richard places the year or full date for customs......and taking into account he did not sign cues back then.....original finishes from that era are more prone to wearing right thru or cracking...not flaking.......it is common for a shop to refinish a cue and just resign the cuemakers signature as close as possible....not always worth extra $300 for him to resign the cue.......this may or may not be this case if refinished 10 years ago.
 
Also possible. I have only one other Black cue from 2009. The signature is also different from all other Blacks I could find online. But, there is also another name inscribed on the cue. I doubt that would also be replicated. Secondly, from what I read, not all cues of Mr. Black from early 80's were dated. Just signed. But, it is all possible. Following this logic, unless you buy the cue directly from the maker, you cannot claim that the cue is all original... Maybe Robert Smith can shed some light on the issue :-)

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This cue is not going to be worth any more unrestored than restored in my opinion. If you like the cue and plan to play with it, having Richard restore it is a good move. His turn around time is quick also. Here is a link to a similar cue of mine that I had Richard refinish and wrap with leather. It turned out great and the hit is superb...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=143724
 
You have a very nice cue there. How long did it take to get the cue back from Richard Black?

I doubt I will play with mine. The handle is too thick for me. Plus it hist much harder than I like. This thing is like a cannon. Hard for me to control the Q ball at my usual stroke. I will trade it for something different. It goes out this week for a refinish.
 
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