1972 McDermott

Moet.1977

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My friend is the second owner of this cue which he bought in early 80's off a close
family friend. The older gentleman said he bought this from Jim McDermott in early 70's.

He couldn't remember exact year but said thinks it was 72.
 

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Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have seen maybe 3 pre "McDermott brand" cues.

Authentication can be difficult with them, he died in 2014. Jim McDemott was repairing and making cues since the mid sixties out of his home. The McDermott brand we know today started in 1975 formally.

Any provenance could help. Letters stating origin, ownership transfer, etc.

I don't even know if any of the McDermott family can really authenticate the early ones.

There is nothing about it that makes me immediately reject the notion that it is a McDermott. As far as I know he used various joints, butt caps, bumpers, etc before settling on the now classic McDermott design.

The joint pin, collar, ring, and pilot look very much like an import though. But that does not mean that is what this is for sure. I am suspicious that it might be though.

The butt sleeve looks a lot like n MR-5, which this cue is not, but there is a strong design resemblance.

s-l300.jpg


McDermott did later used similar maple dashed rings. But they were centered in the black ring, not offset. That exact ring with that exact offset and that exact pilot is seen in a number of imports. And that pin as well. Including, I believe, Adam cues.

The pilot is unclear to me, if it is just exposed tarnished brass then it is more like an import. If that is a dirty wood pilot, then more like US. If compression fit, then very likely custom US made.

I think I have pics of three early McDermott cues on my hard drive. I have no idea of the veracity of the claim that they are by Jim except I did know one of the owners that was a neighbor of McDermott who was there when the cue was purchased. Actually two were purchased and the other was sold long ago. It looks a lot like an early 70's Viking, it appears to be a WICO blank, so you have to believe the story...Plus it has a window with "Cue by McDermott" in it.

This cue is intriguing for me. I do wonder what can be established as far as the origin.

.
 
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Moet.1977

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Doc

The cue isn't 4 sale I tried yesterday, the guys had this for almost 40 years and he bought it
from a friend that said he bought it straight from Jim McDermott hands.

The guys a straight shooter as far as I know and I have no reason to doubt him.

The points are all straight and the cue plays great but is in need of a refinish bad,
he did say that he thinks the old man said it is signed under the warp but it been so long
ago an now he's getting old he can't remember.
 

$TAKE HOR$E

champagne - campaign
Silver Member
Years ago a friend of mine gave me a McDermott to try and find out some info on it. He found it in a poolroom or bar and it had been leaning against a stove or something. It was in poor shape but I had never seen that particular design. Ill try and find the pictures because it seems like it wasnt signed but it did have the 3/8 pin. I sent pictures to McDermott and although they said it was possible that it was a McDermott they could not give a definitive yes or no nor a date. I guess all cues before a certain time period have no recorded history. I cant remember if it was them or another cuemaker or company that told me, but I know a lot of records were destroyed in a fire.

This cue is much nicer than the one I had and the points look a little to good to not be from a skilled craftsman. Is the wrap cortland? If so, chances are very high its not an import.
 
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Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The cue isn't 4 sale I tried yesterday, the guys had this for almost 40 years and he bought it
from a friend that said he bought it straight from Jim McDermott hands.

The guys a straight shooter as far as I know and I have no reason to doubt him.

The points are all straight and the cue plays great but is in need of a refinish bad,
he did say that he thinks the old man said it is signed under the warp but it been so long
ago an now he's getting old he can't remember.

I am not doubting the story. Just saying what I see.

I didn't comment on the points because as far as I know, Jim McD was not splicing his own points yet at that time.

It looks to me like possibly Adam points. Not unusual for cue makers to use a blank from such a source.

Also remember that Jim McD was doing primarily repairs for a long time. Just because a cue came from a cue maker does not mean he made it. Sometimes they sell trade-ins or refurbished cues that they did not make.

For example, there was a gentleman that insisted he had a Burton Spain cue. It was an Adam. Spain was an Adm dealer.

It may very well be a McD. I don't know. I am intrigued by this cue as I am in general with the earlier works of cue makers in general like McD, Gordon Hart, Helmstetter, the cue makers that passed through National, etc....

In many cases such early work can be quite a job to positively identify.

.
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Years ago a friend of mine gave me a McDermott to try and find out some info on it. He found it in a poolroom or bar and it had been leaning against a stove or something. It was in poor shape but I had never seen that particular design. Ill try and find the pictures because it seems like it wasnt signed but it did have the 3/8 pin. I sent pictures to McDermott and although they said it was possible that it was a McDermott they could not give a definitive yes or no nor a date. I guess all cues before a certain time period have no recorded history. I cant remember if it was them or another cuemaker or company that told me, but I know a lot of records were destroyed in a fire.

This cue is much nicer than the one I had and the points look a little to good to not be from a skilled craftsman. Is the wrap cortland? If so, chances are very high its not an import.

I would love to see pics. :smile:
 

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am not doubting the story. Just saying what I see.

I didn't comment on the points because as far as I know, Jim McD was not splicing his own points yet at that time.

It looks to me like possibly Adam points. Not unusual for cue makers to use a blank from such a source.

Also remember that Jim McD was doing primarily repairs for a long time. Just because a cue came from a cue maker does not mean he made it. Sometimes they sell trade-ins or refurbished cues that they did not make.

For example, there was a gentleman that insisted he had a Burton Spain cue. It was an Adam. Spain was an Adm dealer.

It may very well be a McD. I don't know. I am intrigued by this cue as I am in general with the earlier works of cue makers in general like McD, Gordon Hart, Helmstetter, the cue makers that passed through National, etc....

In many cases such early work can be quite a job to positively identify.

.

I think you're dead on the mark Doc. I'm not doubting the story either as I've seen some strange things. But it appears to be in almost every way at first glance to be a Helmstetter ST series cue (made by Adams) in the 80's. I wish I still had my old catalogs to reference.

EDIT: I guess I should have refreshed the thread! Nice find Doc.
 
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$TAKE HOR$E

champagne - campaign
Silver Member
Ive often wondered how over the years people come up with stories about where they acquired a cue, case...etc. I think a lot of the stories are really cool and esp when its something like a Gus or Bushka that was tucked away in a closet and someone's child or grandchild ended up with it and never knew what they really had. Back in the day, 1970's for instance, there wernt nearly as many cuemakers to pick and choose from so the "I was told this cue was from such and such date and this particular cuemaker" stories can often be quite interesting. Not saying the older generation is intentionally lying, but when the cues turn out to be something completely different or from a much different time period its intriguing as to whether or not the original owner might have been misled themselves.

I have came across lots of cues over the years with back stories of being owned by the persons father or grand father and a lot of times dont even tell the person that what theyve been told is completely wrong just by looking at the cue. If they are looking to sell it then ill tell them but if its just a keep sake I see no harm in letting them keep an inheritance tale going I guess.

This isnt a knock on anything, just curious what other people might have came across over the years...actually might be a cool thread topic of its own.
 

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Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ive often wondered how over the years people come up with stories about where they acquired a cue, case...etc. I think a lot of the stories are really cool and esp when its something like a Gus or Bushka that was tucked away in a closet and someone's child or grandchild ended up with it and never knew what they really had. Back in the day, 1970's for instance, there wernt nearly as many cuemakers to pick and choose from so the "I was told this cue was from such and such date and this particular cuemaker" stories can often be quite interesting. Not saying the older generation is intentionally lying, but when the cues turn out to be something completely different or from a much different time period its intriguing as to whether or not the original owner might have been misled themselves.

I have came across lots of cues over the years with back stories of being owned by the persons father or grand father and a lot of times dont even tell the person that what theyve been told is completely wrong just by looking at the cue. If they are looking to sell it then ill tell them but if its just a keep sake I see no harm in letting them keep an inheritance tale going I guess.

This isnt a knock on anything, just curious what other people might have came across over the years...actually might be a cool thread topic of its own.


For me the stories, the history, is as interesting as the cues. Over time memories distort, errors are made, and indeed sometimes somebody was misled long ago. In addition assumptions can be made that just remain unchallenged for decades.

Most often such things involve the well known cue makers names.

What is really difficult is when people feel offended. Or the perceived value is way off. For example, even if the cue is what they think it it is it would be worth a few hundred, but they think it is worth thousands. I have seen knowledgeable people make such errors.

The market determines the value.

.
 

CroweCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thought you might like this if you hadnt seen it, from another thread on here...

One of the best pieces in my collection. have the paper along with it. if you ever need other photos, or Chopdoc needs information for his mcdermott folder. Hit me up anytime .
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of the best pieces in my collection. have the paper along with it. if you ever need other photos, or Chopdoc needs information for his mcdermott folder. Hit me up anytime .

Thank you.

It really is a fantastic piece. And thank you for posting it in the first place. This kind of historical stuff really turns my crank.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
.
 

WildWing

Super Gun Mod
Silver Member
That joint pin looks like 5/16 X 18 to me. Are there any other McDermotts in that era with that pin?

All the best,
WW
 

WildWing

Super Gun Mod
Silver Member
And, not that it necessarily means anything, but that butt sleeve design was really familiar. If it's Helmstetter, here it is in more recent form, the 87-3 model. Obviously points, joint, etc, are different, so no conclusions. Not that it is a Helmstetter, but it more resembles it than not. I've left this picture huge, hope it downloads.

All the best,
WW
 

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CroweCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you.

It really is a fantastic piece. And thank you for posting it in the first place. This kind of historical stuff really turns my crank.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
.


I'm guessing you haven't had the chance to see the press photos yet?

That joint pin looks like 5/16 X 18 to me. Are there any other McDermotts in that era with that pin?

All the best,
WW

They have used other pins historically. even before the 3/8-10. There are some early cues out there.
 

CroweCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And, not that it necessarily means anything, but that butt sleeve design was really familiar. If it's Helmstetter, here it is in more recent form, the 87-3 model. Obviously points, joint, etc, are different, so no conclusions. Not that it is a Helmstetter, but it more resembles it than not. I've left this picture huge, hope it downloads.

All the best,
WW

I agree with you 100%
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm guessing you haven't had the chance to see the press photos yet?



They have used other pins historically. even before the 3/8-10. There are some early cues out there.

Press photos?

As far as the pin, yes, he did different ones earlier. I have seen an early one with a 5/16x14 piloted.

Even later, at least into the 80's I believe different pins were an option. They offered stainless collars as an option and I believe also piloted 5/16x14.

.
 
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