1Pocket: ruling question.

AZE

DeucesCracked Instructor
Silver Member
this situation came up for the first time I've ever seen it last night. the cueball and object ball were both hanging in the pocket, player legally hits the ball but after his stroke the object ball touches his shaft and falls in the pocket. The ball may have been going in the hole any way but it's not certain.

I know touching a moving ball is a foul, he owes one, and I know it's not the type of foul where the ball he nudged into my pocket spots up on the spot (for obvious angle-shooting reasons).

My question is does the object ball just stay down and count for me, or does it go back up where it last was?



If you know the ruling please let me know. If you're not sure what the ruling is but want to take a guess thats fine but let me know that you're just guessing.
 
It does count for you I believe or is spotted to where it was before he knocked it in.
 
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According to the rules listed at onepocket.org
6. Fouls
6.1 Unless otherwise announced by the tournament director, One Pocket is played according to the World General Rules 1.16.1, ‘cue ball fouls only’. In the event that a player accidentally moves a ball, the opponent may elect to have the disturbed ball remain in its new position or be restored to its original position. When balls are restored, they shall be placed as close as possible to their original positions, with no advantage to be gained by the offending player. If no official is available to restore disturbed balls, then the players must come to agreement on satisfactory replacement of the disturbed balls prior to continuing play.

6.2 Any scratch or foul results in the end of the shooter’s inning, as well as a standard one ball penalty. All balls pocketed in the shooter’s pocket as a result of a stroke that includes a foul do not count for the shooting player and are to be immediately spotted, along with the standard one ball penalty. Also, any balls pocketed in the opponent’s pocket on a stroke that ends in either a pocket scratch or with the cue ball off the table are not to be counted for the opponent, and are to be immediately spotted. However, on a stroke when any other foul is committed (such as a push shot, double-hit or illegal ball contact), any balls scored into the opponent’s pocket are to stay down and be counted for the opponent.

6.3 Following either a pocket scratch or the cue ball jumping the table, the incoming player has cue ball in hand behind the head string. Following any other foul, the cue ball is played where it lies.

6.4 If the offending player has no balls to spot, then they will owe one for each such scratch, which must be repaid by spotting at the end of the first inning or innings in which they score. All owed balls must be repaid before any pocketed balls count towards a player's game score.

Typically, any owed scratches are indicated by placement of a small coin on the rail top adjacent to the offending player's pocket. An additional coin is placed to represent each additional scratch without a scored ball to spot. One coin is removed for each owed ball repaid by spotting at the end of the first inning or innings in which they are scored, until all owed scratches have been repaid, and standard scoring can commence.

6.5 Driving either the cue ball or an object ball off the table is a foul, whenever either comes to rest off the playing surface, or comes in contact with anything other than the table itself while airborne.

Please note that One Pocket has been traditionally played in many areas without a foul charged for jumping an object ball off the table, contrary to current general pocket billiards rules; therefore it is important to verify house rules or your tournament director's interpretation prior to an important match.

6.6 Intentional fouls are an accepted part of One Pocket tactics as long as they are played by use of a legal stroke, such as by lightly touching the cue ball with the cue tip; by rolling the cue ball to a new location without regard for legal contact with either an object ball or a cushion; by pocket scratching the cue ball; or by using a legal jump technique to force the cue ball off the table. However, if the acting official rules that a player has used an illegal technique to direct the cue ball or any object balls to a more desirable location, then the incoming player has the option of either playing the balls where they lie, or requesting the official to restore all such moved balls to their location prior to the illegal maneuver. The offending player is charged the standard one ball foul penalty, and in addition may be further penalized at the discretion of the acting official under the general rules of unsportsmanlike conduct.

6.7 It shall not be a foul to accidentally touch the cue ball while removing an object ball from an adjacent pocket, or when spotting a ball where the cue ball interferes. It shall be a foul for the incoming shooter to accidentally touch an object ball with the cue ball while placing it in a ball in hand situation.

Now... nothing is stated about hitting a moving ball with your cue. My guess would be it would be the incoming players choice as to leave it where it is, or try to replace it where they think it would have been.
 
Ponytail, hitting a moving ball and touching a stationary ball is two completely different things.
Like I said it's defeintely a foul to touch a moving ball, but when it goes in my pocket I'm not sure if it counts for me or is spotted back up where it was



Lenny, are you saying it's my choice of putting it back or letting it count for me?
 
Ponytail, hitting a moving ball and touching a stationary ball is two completely different things.
Like I said it's defeintely a foul to touch a moving ball, but when it goes in my pocket I'm not sure if it counts for me or is spotted back up where it was



Lenny, are you saying it's my choice of putting it back or letting it count for me?

I would think that the ball is spotted as close to its original position.
 
I would think that the ball is spotted as close to its original position.

this is what i thought... but now that i think about it, what if the ball was moving in the center of the table and they hit it and it fell in the pocket... what happens then?
 
this is what i thought... but now that i think about it, what if the ball was moving in the center of the table and they hit it and it fell in the pocket... what happens then?

It would be the same thing I do believe unless it was in the path of the cue ball.
 
so, can somebody give me one good reason please (maybe im overlooking something?), why a ruling like this wouldn't be better served if the incoming player had the choice to spot it or not, kinda like a penalty in football. just pls give me a good reason and ill shut up forever about it, but i dont think there is one.
 
IMO if its considered a foul your ball gets spotted and one of his gets spotted. Any balls that fall on a foul get spotted.

Cue ball is where it lies, and if it's bad position for your shot, take a foul as he is on the first one. And that's a guess. :)
 
so, can somebody give me one good reason please (maybe im overlooking something?), why a ruling like this wouldn't be better served if the incoming player had the choice to spot it or not, kinda like a penalty in football. just pls give me a good reason and ill shut up forever about it, but i dont think there is one.

This is honestly what I feel it should be. If I feel it's better for the ball to spot up where I think it was it should go there if we can agree on it. If I want it to stay down as a pocketed ball let it stay down.
I have a feeling this isn't the actual rule, and am guessing as long as this type of foul wasn't intentional (which would be an immediate loss of game) it probably just stays down in my hole.

Cue ball fouls only.
plz think before posting :). even in cue ball foul only games if you touch a moving ball, or even move a stationary ball and it was in or gets moved into the path of other moving balls (cue ball or other) it's a foul.

IMO if its considered a foul your ball gets spotted and one of his gets spotted. Any balls that fall on a foul get spotted.

incorrect. this isn't a 'legal' foul (not sure of the real term). any balls pocketed in the other players hole on non legal fouls stay down... (i.e; if you do an illegal push shot and pocket a ball in my hole it stays in my hole, and then you owe a ball of your own for the foul)... the only time you can pocket a ball in my hole and have it spot is if you fly the cue-ball off the table or make it scratch inside a pocket.
 
c'mon where are the one pocket gurus on this forum?

PAGING INCARDONA!! PAGING INCARDONA!
 
According to the rules listed at onepocket.org
6. Fouls

6.2 All balls pocketed in the shooter’s pocket as a result of a stroke that includes a foul do not count for the shooting player and are to be immediately spotted, along with the standard one ball penalty. Also, any balls pocketed in the opponent’s pocket on a stroke that ends in either a pocket scratch or with the cue ball off the table are not to be counted for the opponent, and are to be immediately spotted. However, on a stroke when any other foul is committed (such as a push shot, double- hit or illegal ball contact), any balls scored into the opponent’s pocket are to stay down and be counted for the opponent.


Now... nothing is stated about hitting a moving ball with your cue. My guess would be it would be the incoming players choice as to leave it where it is, or try to replace it where they think it would have been.

6.2 seems to clearly cover the question. Hitting a moving ball with your stick would be considered as ,"any other foul." Meaning any foul committed
by not using a legal stroke. The ball pocketed in your pocket stays
down and counts for you. No choice is given. :yes:
 
what he said

6.2 seems to clearly cover the question. Hitting a moving ball with your stick would be considered as ,"any other foul." Meaning any foul committed
by not using a legal stroke. The ball pocketed in your pocket stays
down and counts for you. No choice is given. :yes:

I was going to say that the rules don't cover this situation but I think bch has it right.
 
I think this situation is more complicated than discussed. This type of foul, and I think we all agree it is a foul (I hope), may be considered a flagrant foul resulting in loss of game - if the situation deems it so. Of course it depends on the tournament director and the rules discussed before the matches begin. If you are gambling, it should be discussed before hand or at least agreed upon after the first offense.

This is a type of unsportsmanship play that I think, Ronnie Allen gets credit for as well as others (very clever at the time). If your opponent needs one or two and there is a ball hanging in his hole, and the rules clearly stated at the time that a ball cannot count as pocketed if ther was a foul. Ronnie and others would simply hit the cueball twice to create the foul, make the ball, which at that time comes up (spots) and he gets to keep the cueball in the jaws of the pocket. The rule has been changed to allow that ball to stay down in many tourneys for that type of foul to keep this from happening.

In Tulsa at the T-time 1-pocket tourney, it was officially deemed an flagrant foul and loss of game.

Now I'm not saying in this case it is a flagrant foul or not, but it is easy to do on purpose. That's why I think it's complicated. I think you should post this on onepocket.com to get the more seasoned players opinion.

Dave
 
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