$20,000 Added Events - Room Owners Needed
- Thread starter MikeJanis
- Start date
selftaut said:
This helps clear up quite a bit as to fund raising. I just wanted to get a better view of the options available to the pool rooms before I asked if it might be possible to hold an event here(a more than equiped room to host I would think) because I would love to see that kind of action here, which has been a bit stagnet here as of late.
To anyone I offended please accept my sincerest apologies.
I did not mean to offend anyone. As a long time member of on-line communities AZ, IP , SB, 1-P.org, AR, BD, and the old RSB I know by simply posting I open myself up to criticism. Most times I view these types of posts as an opportunity to challenge my business philosophy and use it as a tool to better my position in the long run. I see nothing wrong with nay-sayers as I view that input as constructive criticism and work with it the best I can.
However, as a note: As just about everyone else in my position I could simply just issue press releases and not participate in the discussions about them. But, that's not me, it has not been me and I am sure I will not be changing this outlook anytime soon. I know some appreciate my discussions and making myself available as well as others that do not. If you do, please jump on board this train. If you don't, stand back and watch this train pass by you and jump on the next one if it suits you better.
As the proprietor of the Viking Tours I am in business with my room owner partners on every event we do. This has been my philosophy since the day I started. If I could not make my partners money I would have been out of business a long time ago. Many of my partner room owners that share the same business philosophy and I have been doing business together for over a decade. That in itself should speak volumes for my business plans. Others do not see it the same way and of course it is their choice.
On the Viking Tour my room owner partners and I have done several large scale events. Unfortunately, I can not give specifics as to the fees due to propriety reasons. Basically, it's our "Secret Sauce". However, I can tell you this, our larger event fees to billiard rooms have never been less than $15,000 and never more that $40,000 and the room owners that we have dealt with on these have always wanted to do it again and will when the opportunities become available to them in their region as long as their economic situations allow. We have done multiple events $25,000 added in Cleveland,OH at the same location and in similar ones at the Pool Room in Duluth, GA along with Chicago, Lexington and Atlanta. These rooms were selected and approached by me with a great package deal that even the savviest of room owners could not pass up. Unfortunately on the Viking Tour we have been limited with doing these events only by our sponsorship requirements and the format of the Viking Tour system.
The 6 events we will be scheduling in 2009 (and the 32 others in the following 4 years) will work for the room owners just as it has for others in the past. This isn't a guess, it is based on my and my ATS regional tour partners vast amount of experience in these matters.
As mentioned earlier in this and other posts. The system and business proposal is not available for on-line discussions at this point nor do I expect it ever will. I am simply searching for larger locations that have a vested interest in the growth of our sport and are willing participate in creating that growth.
Thank you for your replies and I look forward to reading your suggestions, compliments and yes, even complaints.
Mj
I did not mean to offend anyone. As a long time member of on-line communities AZ, IP , SB, 1-P.org, AR, BD, and the old RSB I know by simply posting I open myself up to criticism. Most times I view these types of posts as an opportunity to challenge my business philosophy and use it as a tool to better my position in the long run. I see nothing wrong with nay-sayers as I view that input as constructive criticism and work with it the best I can.
However, as a note: As just about everyone else in my position I could simply just issue press releases and not participate in the discussions about them. But, that's not me, it has not been me and I am sure I will not be changing this outlook anytime soon. I know some appreciate my discussions and making myself available as well as others that do not. If you do, please jump on board this train. If you don't, stand back and watch this train pass by you and jump on the next one if it suits you better.
As the proprietor of the Viking Tours I am in business with my room owner partners on every event we do. This has been my philosophy since the day I started. If I could not make my partners money I would have been out of business a long time ago. Many of my partner room owners that share the same business philosophy and I have been doing business together for over a decade. That in itself should speak volumes for my business plans. Others do not see it the same way and of course it is their choice.
On the Viking Tour my room owner partners and I have done several large scale events. Unfortunately, I can not give specifics as to the fees due to propriety reasons. Basically, it's our "Secret Sauce". However, I can tell you this, our larger event fees to billiard rooms have never been less than $15,000 and never more that $40,000 and the room owners that we have dealt with on these have always wanted to do it again and will when the opportunities become available to them in their region as long as their economic situations allow. We have done multiple events $25,000 added in Cleveland,OH at the same location and in similar ones at the Pool Room in Duluth, GA along with Chicago, Lexington and Atlanta. These rooms were selected and approached by me with a great package deal that even the savviest of room owners could not pass up. Unfortunately on the Viking Tour we have been limited with doing these events only by our sponsorship requirements and the format of the Viking Tour system.
The 6 events we will be scheduling in 2009 (and the 32 others in the following 4 years) will work for the room owners just as it has for others in the past. This isn't a guess, it is based on my and my ATS regional tour partners vast amount of experience in these matters.
As mentioned earlier in this and other posts. The system and business proposal is not available for on-line discussions at this point nor do I expect it ever will. I am simply searching for larger locations that have a vested interest in the growth of our sport and are willing participate in creating that growth.
Thank you for your replies and I look forward to reading your suggestions, compliments and yes, even complaints.
Mj
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I've Seen It With My Own Two Beautiful Blue Eyes
Product, Mike gives LOTS of product to participating rooms, to help them recoup their money.
Doug
Product, Mike gives LOTS of product to participating rooms, to help them recoup their money.
Doug
First I hope no one was thinking I was bashing any plans or complaining.
And Mike doing this for 10 years and on, of course I think it works, but seeing it work and understanding how it works are two different things and I just wanted some insight. And maybe trying to put a birdy in an ear or two to maybe consider having you back in our room.
And Mike doing this for 10 years and on, of course I think it works, but seeing it work and understanding how it works are two different things and I just wanted some insight. And maybe trying to put a birdy in an ear or two to maybe consider having you back in our room.
Rift said:
I believe I have already been contacted by that room. But hey, anything you could do such as simply asking a room owners to contact me is appreciated.
As I have told the room owners that have already contacted me. Right now we are just compiling a list. In the near future I will provide them with 100% of the details and they can make their individual decisions from there.
Mj
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Cool
I wish you the best whenever you schedule Georgia I hope you give us notice so we can attend as many as possible . I'm sure you will it only makes sense ... I would really look forward to it and hope my son and some of our friends would come along ...
Thanks
I wish you the best whenever you schedule Georgia I hope you give us notice so we can attend as many as possible . I'm sure you will it only makes sense ... I would really look forward to it and hope my son and some of our friends would come along ...
Thanks
Requirements?
Mike J.
Good clean-up on this thread. Thanks for clarification.
Could you let us know the minimal requirements from a room that is interested. (ie. #of tables, size, etc.) I'm big a networking and promoting. There has been a lot more interest in my area in the last 5 years. More halls are going up.... it's a positive thing.
MikeJanis said:
Mike J.
Good clean-up on this thread. Thanks for clarification.
Could you let us know the minimal requirements from a room that is interested. (ie. #of tables, size, etc.) I'm big a networking and promoting. There has been a lot more interest in my area in the last 5 years. More halls are going up.... it's a positive thing.
BrandyWine said:Mike J.
Good clean-up on this thread. Thanks for clarification.
Could you let us know the minimal requirements from a room that is interested. (ie. #of tables, size, etc.) I'm big a networking and promoting. There has been a lot more interest in my area in the last 5 years. More halls are going up.... it's a positive thing.
Consistant tournament qualty tables is the #1 requirement. Table sizes do not matter. In fact, we would like to have various kinds of events on all table sizes including 7', 8' and 9' tables.
The table arrangement is also a consideration. Moving tables, lights and seating has long been an added expense at pool room locations that hold larger events which is something we will be doing our best to stay away from. We would like 8-12 tournament Quality tables and an additional 8-12 tables so others can still play while the event is taking place. For cost recovery purposes it will also be required that the host rooms have full restaurant and bar services. Which also helps for keeping spectators and players around during the events.
Those are the basics.
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selftaut said:
I would add to that that I would approach local business and get them to advertise in my venue. I would also get the local beverage suppliers to kick in something. I would get the city involved somehow and certainly go for as much free publicity as possible.
$10,000 is not a lot of money in today's world. If you think small then you stay small.
What the ATS Tour brings hopefully to me is top notch players and some stars I can promote as being worth watching. If I am savvy enough and willing to work for it then I can increase my business through such an event.
Another thing I would do is to approach my fellow room owners and try and work out a qualifier system using local tournaments so that someone from each room could be represented at the tournament.
One thing NO ONE does - well ALMOST NO ONE - is promote their events locally well in advance. Other than MAYBE a dinky poster or a banner now and then in the place where the event is going to be held there is almost NEVER any promotion for the events.
What happens when the circus comes to town? There are people who come in first and plaster the town with posters and seed local businesses with "free" tickets. The result is that people show up and spend.
Mike, this suggestion is for you; you need to find a way to provide some of that promotion for the places you do events to help the rooms bring more spectators.
Another thing I would do is create a poster that goes up around town whereever I can put it - with advertising from all the local sponsors so that it's sure to be displayed in those sponsor's businesses as well.
There are tons of things that can be done to make a sporting event a success that are beyond the walls of the poolroom. The thing is that they all require some work and very few are willing to put in that work. The ones that do see a pay off.
There is no excuse for for having a tournament in New York that isn't CRAMMED full of paying spectators day after day. Well I take it back, there is an excuse, doing your best to make it invisible to the millions of people who live there.
What do people need and want in the infotainment age? They want information and entertainment. How about a radio interview or a series from the ATS tour players on local radio stations about life on the road, gambling stories, and so on. Chasing the American Dream one runout at a time. Modern day gunslingers and so on. Show off the romantic side of pool, the mysterious side, and invite everyone to come and see the best of the best shoot it out at Pockets Billiards on May 5th, tickets just $5 at the door.
The point is that there is PLENTY of stuff that can be done.
I recommend Guerrilla marketing by Jay Conrad Levinson. I think a lot of people forget the basics when things like this come up. They focus on the amount and not the opportunities.
ADVERTISING..... talk it up!
My opinion....below:
To draw the younger crowd and non-pooling crowd it must be presented in a way that is exciting and people want to come and learn more.
So many people, need to be introduced to this sport. Elitism will only kill it. It's easy to "look down" at people slamming balls in every corner and yelling "I meant to do that!", but we have to love people where they are, no matter how ridicules they really look!!!!!
Exposure is the way to go, representation. (gosh this sounds "political"
! )
So many people think pool is "dirty", "for losers", "gamblers", "drunks", "smokers". The IMAGE is tarnished. It will take years of positive advertisement and backing to bring it back "mainstream" like it ought to be.
Been to a bowling alley lately?! There are dozens of people slinging a heavy ball down a piece of wood. Hurts me just looking at em. To me ...that doesn't take near the intelligence as billiards, mostly dumb-luck! There is a ton of $ being spent everyday, it's PACKED! There is a lot of people who are in the "market" for pool but don't know where to go or who to talk to, they don't want to go to a "bar" where people are getting "drunk". Lucky for them I like to talk pool and advertise AZbilliards.com
I tell people I'm going to practice pool,they look at me funny & say "aren't you a mom?" "you're going to a "bar". I don't go to local "bars", I practice on a clean table at the bowling alley M-Th to avoid the "drunks" & "lamos" ... still the bars won't let my kids in to watch so I have very little "table time" yet the kids can be anywhere near the bowling alley full of idiots cussing and drinking!!! (WTF...who came up with all the rules!)...
Sorry to cut so much! This guy has a point.JB Cases said:
My opinion....below:
To draw the younger crowd and non-pooling crowd it must be presented in a way that is exciting and people want to come and learn more.
So many people, need to be introduced to this sport. Elitism will only kill it. It's easy to "look down" at people slamming balls in every corner and yelling "I meant to do that!", but we have to love people where they are, no matter how ridicules they really look!!!!!
Exposure is the way to go, representation. (gosh this sounds "political"
! ) So many people think pool is "dirty", "for losers", "gamblers", "drunks", "smokers". The IMAGE is tarnished. It will take years of positive advertisement and backing to bring it back "mainstream" like it ought to be.
Been to a bowling alley lately?! There are dozens of people slinging a heavy ball down a piece of wood. Hurts me just looking at em. To me ...that doesn't take near the intelligence as billiards, mostly dumb-luck!
There is a ton of $ being spent everyday, it's PACKED! There is a lot of people who are in the "market" for pool but don't know where to go or who to talk to, they don't want to go to a "bar" where people are getting "drunk". Lucky for them I like to talk pool and advertise AZbilliards.com I tell people I'm going to practice pool,they look at me funny & say "aren't you a mom?" "you're going to a "bar". I don't go to local "bars", I practice on a clean table at the bowling alley M-Th to avoid the "drunks" & "lamos" ... still the bars won't let my kids in to watch so I have very little "table time" yet the kids can be anywhere near the bowling alley full of idiots cussing and drinking!!! (WTF...who came up with all the rules!)...
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BrandyWine said:Sorry to cut so much! This guy has a point.
My opinion....below:
To draw the younger crowd and non-pooling crowd it must be presented in a way that is exciting and people want to come and learn more.
So many people, need to be introduced to this sport. Elitism will only kill it. It's easy to "look down" at people slamming balls in every corner and yelling "I meant to do that!", but we have to love people where they are, no matter how ridicules they really look!!!!!
Exposure is the way to go, representation. (gosh this sounds "political"
So many people think pool is "dirty", "for losers", "gamblers", "drunks", "smokers". The IMAGE is tarnished. It will take years of positive advertisement and backing to bring it back "mainstream" like it ought to be.
Been to a bowling alley lately?! There are dozens of people slinging a heavy ball down a piece of wood. Hurts me just looking at em. To me ...that doesn't take near the intelligence as billiards, mostly dumb-luck!
I tell people I'm going to practice pool,they look at me funny & say "aren't you a mom?" "you're going to a "bar". I don't go to local "bars", I practice on a clean table at the bowling alley M-Th to avoid the "drunks" & "lamos" ... still the bars won't let my kids in to watch so I have very little "table time" yet the kids can be anywhere near the bowling alley full of idiots cussing and drinking!!! (WTF...who came up with all the rules!)...:cool:
YEAH...RIGHT! I've never been in to a bar or pool hall that has any cussing and drinking!
But I have seen a LOT of guys praying...in the men's rooms...At least I THINK they were praying.
They were down on their knees bent over so I assume that's what they were doing. Probably just trying to get right with the Lord before their next match. Ya think???
(-:
Jim
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I received a phone call from Mike Janis earlier this evening. My pool hall has almost been guaranteed one of the top six spots in the $20,000 added tournament run by Mike. Mike Janis has run many tournaments for me in Chicago as well as Florida. They have all been very well run, always profitable, and there has always been a very good turn out. With the bad reputation that pool halls have, I would think that people would be more supportive of what Mike Janis is trying to do. He is helping increase peoples interest in pool by running these tournaments that anyone has the chance to join. Mike Janis has always been very professional and I would be more than happy to have him run a tournament in my pool hall.
thanks James
thanks James
Just a thought.
Bringing good players in is good for the players coming in, but not for the room owners. The road players just come in and take the money and run. Which is fine, but the people who play in the area need something out of it. They are the ones spending money week after week in that location.
Promotion of pool is tough, it costs more to drive to a tournament than it costs to enter now. But the economy is so bad you have to keep low entries to attract enough players. We have almost 2000 members in our league we need something to attract them to go see the good players play, and get them motivated to play more. Whether it be tournaments or leagues. There has to be something.
And as for a room owner coughing up 10k for a tournament wow. That is so tough! I would love to see more tournaments like these in pool rooms. I think right now the only places that can have tournaments like these are casinos. they make it up through gambling. Even for a casino to have a tournament you need to have 300-500 players and a good crowd for a casino to put up 10k. If you think about it this has to be the most watched pool forum in america and how many people are on here every day, 300 max. this is a big country and we have 300 pool enthusiasts and 400,000 players what is wrong with this picture.
Its all about motivation these players need to be educated on what is out there because they dont know. I think it is the better players responsibility to teach the lesser(for lack of a better word) players.
and for them to get the people that dont play interested in playing.
The days of gambling are coming to an end there are less and less everyday gambling if there was internet in the 60's -80's the action report would be richer than ebay. We need to change gears and start all over.
Get everyone intersted in pool let them have fun and learn.
Thats my 47 cents and is my opinion on a few things I wanted to touch on.
Thanks for listening
Troy Jones
pool lover
Bringing good players in is good for the players coming in, but not for the room owners. The road players just come in and take the money and run. Which is fine, but the people who play in the area need something out of it. They are the ones spending money week after week in that location.
Promotion of pool is tough, it costs more to drive to a tournament than it costs to enter now. But the economy is so bad you have to keep low entries to attract enough players. We have almost 2000 members in our league we need something to attract them to go see the good players play, and get them motivated to play more. Whether it be tournaments or leagues. There has to be something.
And as for a room owner coughing up 10k for a tournament wow. That is so tough! I would love to see more tournaments like these in pool rooms. I think right now the only places that can have tournaments like these are casinos. they make it up through gambling. Even for a casino to have a tournament you need to have 300-500 players and a good crowd for a casino to put up 10k. If you think about it this has to be the most watched pool forum in america and how many people are on here every day, 300 max. this is a big country and we have 300 pool enthusiasts and 400,000 players what is wrong with this picture.
Its all about motivation these players need to be educated on what is out there because they dont know. I think it is the better players responsibility to teach the lesser(for lack of a better word) players.
and for them to get the people that dont play interested in playing.
The days of gambling are coming to an end there are less and less everyday gambling if there was internet in the 60's -80's the action report would be richer than ebay. We need to change gears and start all over.
Get everyone intersted in pool let them have fun and learn.
Thats my 47 cents and is my opinion on a few things I wanted to touch on.
Thanks for listening
Troy Jones
pool lover
A great place in Tennessee
The description given for a qualifying room fits Chattanooga Billiards Club perfectly. Mike, I'm sure you know P.W. , have you made a run at him?
The description given for a qualifying room fits Chattanooga Billiards Club perfectly. Mike, I'm sure you know P.W. , have you made a run at him?
Positive Feedback!
Thank you to everyone that provided positive feedback! Mike is working his fingers to the bone trying to pull most of this together, and he's doing a fantastic job!
Someone else said it perfectly, "if you build it, they will come". There has been a lot of attempts in this industry to build a tour system or qualifying pro system. The biggest failure has been a lack of team work and team effort, this is truly a grassroots effort, and the more positive support we can get, the better.
I would like to think that while the tour directors have taken quite a bit of heat, that our reputations precede us. While we've had some mistakes in our growth and progress over the years, we've always tried to do the best by our players, room owners, and sponsors. This is what makes this team effort a true dynamic!
Mike has our full backing and support.
Beetle - you had valid questions, which I know weren't necessarily answered directly by Mike, however, the details are being discussed directly with the rooms, and there were a lot of great suggestions in this thread for room owners on how to build up the added cash requirements. Hopefully, some of those posts helped, I didn't think you were bashing at all! Skepticism is expected - we are fully aware of the past failings, and harm that has been created throughout the industry. Luckily, Mike has thick skin, as do I!
Thanks everyone! Keep up the good work Mike!
Thank you to everyone that provided positive feedback! Mike is working his fingers to the bone trying to pull most of this together, and he's doing a fantastic job!
Someone else said it perfectly, "if you build it, they will come". There has been a lot of attempts in this industry to build a tour system or qualifying pro system. The biggest failure has been a lack of team work and team effort, this is truly a grassroots effort, and the more positive support we can get, the better.
I would like to think that while the tour directors have taken quite a bit of heat, that our reputations precede us. While we've had some mistakes in our growth and progress over the years, we've always tried to do the best by our players, room owners, and sponsors. This is what makes this team effort a true dynamic!
Mike has our full backing and support.
Beetle - you had valid questions, which I know weren't necessarily answered directly by Mike, however, the details are being discussed directly with the rooms, and there were a lot of great suggestions in this thread for room owners on how to build up the added cash requirements. Hopefully, some of those posts helped, I didn't think you were bashing at all! Skepticism is expected - we are fully aware of the past failings, and harm that has been created throughout the industry. Luckily, Mike has thick skin, as do I!
Thanks everyone! Keep up the good work Mike!
nineballcc said:
Ceci, thank you for joining me in this venture. Over the years we have both come a long way to achieve these goals by working together. Thank you for all you have done for the players and in working together with me over these past 4 years.
This new system for our sport is extremely vast. The complete system involves participation by many regional tours, leagues, independent tournament events, billiard room owners, pro-shop owners and the billiard industry. For the players they will get tons of events with GUARANTEED money added. Billiard Room owners will not only get great sanctioned events but also discounts as well as the pro-shop owners on various products and supplies that they use or sell. All of the combined entities of this system will benefit everyone but mostly the players. Once this system is fully operation (All 5 phases) the system will be an unstoppable, self containing system and will benefit our sport for many following generations.
To everyone who has shown their support for this by sending me PM's and emails of rooms that you suggest, I thank you very much. Please keep them coming.
Mj