3-cushion, the new leader of the pack?

Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Here is the final of the 3-cushion World Cup event that just finished. It is a Korean versus a Spaniard playing in Egypt. Both players average over 2.5 points per inning which are averages almost never seen during the Golden Age with Hoppe and Cochran. It's edited down to omit most of the misses and some standard shots.

 
Bob Jewett said:
Here is the final of the 3-cushion World Cup event that just finished. It is a Korean versus a Spaniard playing in Egypt. Both players average over 2.5 points per inning which are averages almost never seen during the Golden Age with Hoppe and Cochran. It's edited down to omit most of the misses and some standard shots.

Click to expand...

Another case where it is very hard to compare, Hoppe and Cochran played on cold tables with shag carpet
 
IMO there's one guy that crossed over from the old days to modern days..
I'm sure this doesn't solves the question whether the old timers could compete with today's champions but its an example that says, yes they could.

Raymond Ceulemans secured his first National Championship in 1962 (Wikipedia, if this can be the authority) Willie Hoppe won his last World Championship in 1952. (again Wikipedia) He passed in 1959.

It seems if these dates are correct, Ceulemans learned and played in his early years on "old style equipment"

Moving forward to his last several years, he was still winning up to his 1990 World Championship.

I remember sometime much later he announced his retirement, although he'd show up now and again. Then in 2001 he came back and won the UMB World Championship again.
11 YEARS LATER!!

My opinion.... Mr Ceulemans realized he couldn't compete with the 2.0 averages, so he went home for a few years to work on improving his Weak Game. LOL

If I remembe correctly World Championship averages in Hoppe's day were around 1.0 at best and Ceulemans was well under 1.5 THEN the game changed drastically.

Then Ceulemans Answered the Call.
I forget and can't find his Grand Average for his last Championship, but I believe it approached if not achieved 2.0.
 
3kushn said:
... It seems if these dates are correct, Ceulemans learned and played in his early years on "old style equipment"
...
Click to expand...
By 1966 or so, the UMB rules for tournaments required the tables to be heated. I don't know when that became common in Europe. I think the cloth used was equivalent to the current Simonis 300. It is true, though, that Ceulemans set his record average (1.679) in Las Vegas (1978) on old, unheated Brunswick tables -- but they were dry. The finals:
CropperCapture[133].png

Ceulemans won his last World Championship in 2001 in Luxembourg. He had the second highest average behind Zanetti, but it was only 1.696. That was still better than Blomdahl, Jaspers, Sayginer and Caudron. The first WC winning grand average over 2 was Blomdahl in 1997 and the second (2 exactly?) was not until Choi in 2014. Starting with Choi, half of the winning averages have been 2 or better.
 
2.5 is so strong😳

The equipment changes over the years account for higher averages. The elasticity of the balls, faster cloth, improved cushions make lots of shots possible that weren’t there with old equipment.

It’s amazing how hard billiards is. Makes pool seem easy.

Great stuff!

Fatboy<——-ran 4 a few times
 
Poolmanis said:
I watched semis and Finals live. Cho did shoot over 2.0 every match i believe. He is best ever already IMHO.
Click to expand...

I love how the kid plays, but best ever seems premature, considering that he has one World Cup and no World Championships whereas Blomdahl has many of both. But he is 24 and already had to sacrifice a year or two to compulsory military service. He has many years ahead of him and may turn out as best ever. But, as I said, at this point it is premature.
 
Fatboy said:
2.5 is so strong😳

The equipment changes over the years account for higher averages. The elasticity of the balls, faster cloth, improved cushions make lots of shots possible that weren’t there with old equipment.

It’s amazing how hard billiards is. Makes pool seem easy.

Great stuff!

Fatboy<——-ran 4 a few times
Click to expand...
The equipment changes but the cream rises to the top. And formats changing has an effect as well. When Ceulemans was winning most of his 21 world titles, if I recall Bert's book correctly, it was a round robin and games were 60 pts. He could have a bad game or two and still win handily. Whereas in the knockout format one bad game and you're done.

I prefer to look at "best" in generational, rather than absolute, terms. So for me the generational bests are Hoppe, Ceulemans, and Blomdahl.
 
Fatboy said:
2.5 is so strong😳

The equipment changes over the years account for higher averages. The elasticity of the balls, faster cloth, improved cushions make lots of shots possible that weren’t there with old equipment.

It’s amazing how hard billiards is. Makes pool seem easy.

Great stuff!

Fatboy<——-ran 4 a few times
Click to expand...

please elaborate on that, ive seen that said a few times a few places, as if its measureable and noticeable? hard to think of phenolic resin balls as being elastic in any amount a persons eye could account for
 
Texas Carom Club said:
please elaborate on that, ive seen that said a few times a few places, as if its measureable and noticeable? hard to think of phenolic resin balls as being elastic in any amount a persons eye could account for
Click to expand...
You can tell by how wide the caroms bounce. In pool the term "light" is sometimes used. I could be wrong...
 
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