3 HERCEK Cues For Sale

[UGOTDA7]

++++++++++++++++++++

I do know for a fact that "I" did not quote anyone $2800 on the cocobolo SW you are referring to, so you are mistaken. You may have worked your trade with Scott or Matt, but I'm here speaking for myself.

BTW, I am leaving this thread alone. What deals are done mean nothing now, and the participants are privy to the often complex details with them.

If you are not going to speak on behalf of "cueaddicts" then you should probably say so. Your username speaks for itself unless otherwise noted.

I have nothing to hide about my deals and if anybody ever wants to know the details of my history with a cue all they need to do is ask.

I will leave this alone for now as well.

But I will say this--I will always take the opportunity to clear up confusion (intentional or otherwise) cast by others upon my cues and how I represent them.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

I just wanted to say that i've purchased cues from both classiccues and cueaddicts and found both of them were great to work with!

 

[larrynj1]

there's nothing wrong with a dealer of any type of merchandise selling at "retail" and buying at "wholesale". such things often occur at trade shows when groups of people are buying,selling and trading in the same place over the course of a few days. desirable items that are in demand often change hands multiple times with the price increasing with each transaction at collectible type trade shows.
the fact that it occurred the same day doesn't change anything. when multiple items are being traded in the same transaction, more times than not, the values placed on the individual items are different in the minds of both traders.

 

[classiccues]

I think it is quite clear to everybody what is going on here, you guys are simply trying to protect your interests as you see fit. But the way you are going about it is pretty silly and indicative of the way you guys do business. A fair number of people are already aware of this, but as a result of this thread even more people will have some insight into the matter. As I mentioned earlier, it is good for the pool community at large to see how things really work. I’m sure after reading all of this they will be more than able to come to their own (now informed) conclusions.

I don't know if you are now saying guys (plural) meaning us, pool table magic, but if you are going to put me in there. Again don't be a coward and put a name to your post. Right now, since you are talking credibility issues, you are just a guy taking pot shots at a reputable dealer. Talk about lack of credibility.

Since you think you know so much, I am sure at 5000.00 you're what, making 100 on the cue out of the kindness of your heart? Don't be hypocritical either.

Joe

 

[classiccues]

1. I do know that I'm the guy you traded that Southwest to.
2. I do know what you quoted as the price--$2800, directly to my face.
3. I do know I traded that cue to Don a few hours later as part of the deal to get the Hercek on Ebay right now.
4. I do know you quoted Don $2000 on that cue when he dealt it back to you.

Again, who cares. Once you took the cue initially, its gone. Its one deal, period. The fact Don came to them at a later date has nothing to do with your deal, or what they offered Don for the cue. I have bought and sold one cue probably 5-8 times, each time I made money. So WHAT? Isn't that the objective? What am I missing here? A guy comes to me with a SW I just sold to someone else, and says hey, what will you give me on this cue? At that point the initial deal doesn't even enter my mind. Why should it?

Joe

 

[classiccues]

there's nothing wrong with a dealer of any type of merchandise selling at "retail" and buying at "wholesale". such things often occur at trade shows when groups of people are buying,selling and trading in the same place over the course of a few days. desirable items that are in demand often change hands multiple times with the price increasing with each transaction at collectible type trade shows.
the fact that it occurred the same day doesn't change anything. when multiple items are being traded in the same transaction, more times than not, the values placed on the individual items are different in the minds of both traders.

Exactly....

At VF year before last, I sold a cue on Friday and left with the same cue on Sunday.

Joe

 

[UGOTDA7]

I don't know if you are now saying guys (plural) meaning us, pool table magic, but if you are going to put me in there. Again don't be a coward and put a name to your post. Right now, since you are talking credibility issues, you are just a guy taking pot shots at a reputable dealer. Talk about lack of credibility.

Since you think you know so much, I am sure at 5000.00 you're what, making 100 on the cue out of the kindness of your heart? Don't be hypocritical either.

Joe

You're back I see. Are you going to delete these posts as well?

First, the pot shots were taken by cueaddicts (username) when they chimed in on this thread with blatant factual errors. They did this in a half-ass manner as I illustrated in earlier posts. They then followed up in their posts with even more factual errors because they thought they could get away with it. Then they flat out lied and got caught in that lie.

Then as a fellow cue dealer, you chimed in with some decent information among which some of it backed up my pricing on this cue. You also saw fit to call guys like us "terrorists" as well. Then you and cueaddicts all of a sudden delete your posts. I'm no conspiracy theorist but that sure seems kind of odd and as I said earlier, this certainly could be seen by a cynic as "reputable dealers" circling the wagons.

I use my name when appropriate, check my other posts if need be. I'm sorry if this upsets you, oh well, to each his own. I don't deem it necessary to use my name when dealing with two faced people in an antagonistic manner who obviously have an axe to grind.

Coward? Yeah right. Whatever you say. Talk about credibility. You don't know me but have lowered yourself to name calling. Are we back in grade school? I bet you were a terror on the playground. What next, are you going to threaten me and take my lunch money?

I have about $4000 in that cue. I priced it comparable to what a cue in the same category just sold for. If it sells it sells, if not I'll just keep it. I have no problem with that, it is a nice cue and will continue to go up in value. I don't see why you or others here should have a problem with it either. But if you or others want to get all worked up over it by all means go ahead, nobody is stopping you.

 

[UGOTDA7]

Again, who cares. Once you took the cue initially, its gone. Its one deal, period. The fact Don came to them at a later date has nothing to do with your deal, or what they offered Don for the cue. I have bought and sold one cue probably 5-8 times, each time I made money. So WHAT? Isn't that the objective? What am I missing here? A guy comes to me with a SW I just sold to someone else, and says hey, what will you give me on this cue? At that point the initial deal doesn't even enter my mind. Why should it?

Joe

This was done to illustrate the way they (username cueaddicts) do business. As it happens, it also demonstrates them getting caught in a lie. They were not aware that I was the guy they traded the cue to so they felt no obligation to be truthful. If this isn't enlightening to everybody reading this I don't know what is.

The point is that they falsely over-valued their cue when getting rid of it then falsely de-valued it when taking it back. This was over a period of hours, not a later date, with the cue going just right across the hall from their booth.

So if they valued a cue at $2800 and traded it to one guy, then another guy got it, and then that guy took it back to them in the exact same condition and they then valued it at $2000, all over the span of hours, you don't see an issue with that?

Wow, that sure is some depreciation huh? And I thought cars were bad. I guess that is their version of driving off the lot.

Do you think that would have happened if it was the same person? If I got a cue valued at $2800 from you and then came back a few hours later with the cue in the same condition would you then tell me it is only valued at $2000? You may tell me you'll only give me $2000 for it for various reasons, but that is a different issue. But to in essence lie about the value is a much bigger issue as my example demonstrates.

The crux of the issue is since it was a different person they thought they could keep their stories separated and the actual facts of the deal wouldn't become known. If that is the way they choose to do business that is their decision but they should be prepared for what the cue community will think of this practice. If everybody is fine with it then they're fine with it, but everybody should at least have accurate information with which to make their decisions.

And then cueaddicts has the stones to come here without any provocation and comment about my cue being priced "crazy high." Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[classiccues]

You're back I see. Are you going to delete these posts as well?

First, the pot shots were taken by cueaddicts (username) when they chimed in on this thread with blatant factual errors. They did this in a half-ass manner as I illustrated in earlier posts. They then followed up in their posts with even more factual errors because they thought they could get away with it. Then they flat out lied and got caught in that lie.

Then as a fellow cue dealer, you chimed in with some decent information among which some of it backed up my pricing on this cue. You also saw fit to call guys like us "terrorists" as well. Then you and cueaddicts all of a sudden delete your posts. I'm no conspiracy theorist but that sure seems kind of odd and as I said earlier, this certainly could be seen by a cynic as "reputable dealers" circling the wagons.

I called people who like to take anonomous pot shots at established dealers terrorists.. does that fit? Talk about factual errors, I deleted my posts, wrong.
I said for the good of the thread, you guys should delete your posts. Cynic? Paranoid schitzo maybe, but not a cynic. No wagons need be circled.

I use my name when appropriate, check my other posts if need be. I'm sorry if this upsets you, oh well, to each his own. I don't deem it necessary to use my name when dealing with two faced people in an antagonistic manner who obviously have an axe to grind.

No one here has an axe to grind. But again its easy to shoot from the bushes.

Coward? Yeah right. Whatever you say. Talk about credibility. You don't know me but have lowered yourself to name calling. Are we back in grade school? I bet you were a terror on the playground. What next, are you going to threaten me and take my lunch money?

I don't need to know you to call you a coward, your actions here have let everyone here know that.

I have about $4000 in that cue. I priced it comparable to what a cue in the same category just sold for. If it sells it sells, if not I'll just keep it. I have no problem with that, it is a nice cue and will continue to go up in value. I don't see why you or others here should have a problem with it either. But if you or others want to get all worked up over it by all means go ahead, nobody is stopping you.

So you have 4k, into that cue. and want to make 1k. But cueaddicts can't make $800 on a cue? Interesting, that you would use the phrase 2 faced earlier, seems you know it well. I think you proved our point. No need to continue.

Joe

 

[UGOTDA7]

I called people who like to take anonomous pot shots at established dealers terrorists.. does that fit? Talk about factual errors, I deleted my posts, wrong.
I said for the good of the thread, you guys should delete your posts. Cynic? Paranoid schitzo maybe, but not a cynic. No wagons need be circled.

I use my name when appropriate, check my other posts if need be. I'm sorry if this upsets you, oh well, to each his own. I don't deem it necessary to use my name when dealing with two faced people in an antagonistic manner who obviously have an axe to grind.

No one here has an axe to grind. But again its easy to shoot from the bushes.

Coward? Yeah right. Whatever you say. Talk about credibility. You don't know me but have lowered yourself to name calling. Are we back in grade school? I bet you were a terror on the playground. What next, are you going to threaten me and take my lunch money?

I don't need to know you to call you a coward, your actions here have let everyone here know that.

I have about $4000 in that cue. I priced it comparable to what a cue in the same category just sold for. If it sells it sells, if not I'll just keep it. I have no problem with that, it is a nice cue and will continue to go up in value. I don't see why you or others here should have a problem with it either. But if you or others want to get all worked up over it by all means go ahead, nobody is stopping you.

So you have 4k, into that cue. and want to make 1k. But cueaddicts can't make $800 on a cue? Interesting, that you would use the phrase 2 faced earlier, seems you know it well. I think you proved our point. No need to continue.

Joe

How is posting here shooting from the bushes? What do you suggest, that we all get together and do lunch? Is there some other option you have in mind?

And my actions here are cowardly how? If we were all face to face I would have no problem saying to yours and cueaddicts faces exactly what I'm typing here.

I'm here explaining the facts of the deals I was involved in since cueaddicts chose to put their nose someplace it didn't belong. You and they can choose to put whatever spin you like on it. The facts will remain the facts regardless of what you or cueaddicts try to do with them.

I have made no bones about my cue prices and I have even explained in some cases exactly what I had in them and how I got to that figure. People can either take it or leave it, that is their choice. If that is two faced in your opinion you need some help. You see, unlike others here, I have nothing to hide.

Anybody can ask whatever they want to for a cue, that is their decision. But to intentionally mislead (I call it lying) someone as cueaddicts did is pretty shady in my opinion. I'm sorry if you cannot see the difference.

I guess those reading this thread will come to their own conclusions about who is being honest and forthright here and who is simply trying to protect their turf.

(Name)

 

[classiccues]

This was done to illustrate the way they (username cueaddicts) do business. As it happens, it also demonstrates them getting caught in a lie. They were not aware that I was the guy they traded the cue to so they felt no obligation to be truthful. If this isn't enlightening to everybody reading this I don't know what is.

This isn't entirely true, and I think you are way off base. Sean may not have had complete, or any knowledge of the trade for that cue. I also work with a partner and sometimes we sell the same cue, not knowing one has done so already.

The point is that they falsely over-valued their cue when getting rid of it then falsely de-valued it when taking it back. This was over a period of hours, not a later date, with the cue going just right across the hall from their booth..

Who the heck are you to say they falsely over-valued something? You put a cue up for a price, and thats that. How do we know your Hercek is not falsely overvalued, seems like someone thought it was. Look you price high because you know that if you price low, you cannot go up. You can always go down. Also cocobolo nose, or ebony nose SW's right now are bringing a premium. So if they wanted to get 2500 for it, you price it at 2800. Sounds reasonable to me.

So if they valued a cue at $2800 and traded it to one guy, then another guy got it, and then that guy took it back to them in the exact same condition and they then valued it at $2000, all over the span of hours, you don't see an issue with that?..

No. Its a different circumstance and a new deal at that point.

Do you think that would have happened if it was the same person? If I got a cue valued at $2800 from you and then came back a few hours later with the cue in the same condition would you then tell me it is only valued at $2000? You may tell me you'll only give me $2000 for it for various reasons, but that is a different issue. But to in essence lie about the value is a much bigger issue as my example demonstrates.?..

But you didin't pay 2800. So whats the problem. Your making an issue out of something now thats hypothetical. BUT situations at a trade show are different then selling off a site. But if I sold you a cue, and you bought it back a few hours later in the same condition, I would offer you full value on an upgrade only. Why? How do I know you didn't buy it to facilitate a trade on your part that fell through? Why should I be penalized for that? Again, show me the lie in value. There was a sticker price of 2800, which is only that, a sticker price. He also told you Scot buys bad on South Wests all the time. I know this to be true, he way overpays on SW. Infact I would bet he might of had 2200 into that cue, if not more.

The crux of the issue is since it was a different person they thought they could keep their stories separated and the actual facts of the deal wouldn't become known. If that is the way they choose to do business that is their decision but they should be prepared for what the cue community will think of this practice. If everybody is fine with it then they're fine with it, but everybody should at least have accurate information with which to make their decisions.

And then cueaddicts has the stones to come here without any provocation and comment about my cue being priced "crazy high." Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Again you're way off base and only because your mad he said your price was high. They didn't do anything wrong on that SW deal no matter how many hypothetical situations you make for it. There isn't a dealer alive that would have treated it any different. You're right people should have ACCURATE information, but there are also 3 sides to every story. Yours, theirs and the truth.

Joe

 

[UGOTDA7]

This isn't entirely true, and I think you are way off base. Sean may not have had complete, or any knowledge of the trade for that cue. I also work with a partner and sometimes we sell the same cue, not knowing one has done so already.



Who the heck are you to say they falsely over-valued something? You put a cue up for a price, and thats that. How do we know your Hercek is not falsely overvalued, seems like someone thought it was. Look you price high because you know that if you price low, you cannot go up. You can always go down. Also cocobolo nose, or ebony nose SW's right now are bringing a premium. So if they wanted to get 2500 for it, you price it at 2800. Sounds reasonable to me.



No. Its a different circumstance and a new deal at that point.



But you didin't pay 2800. So whats the problem. Your making an issue out of something now thats hypothetical. BUT situations at a trade show are different then selling off a site. But if I sold you a cue, and you bought it back a few hours later in the same condition, I would offer you full value on an upgrade only. Why? How do I know you didn't buy it to facilitate a trade on your part that fell through? Why should I be penalized for that? Again, show me the lie in value. There was a sticker price of 2800, which is only that, a sticker price. He also told you Scot buys bad on South Wests all the time. I know this to be true, he way overpays on SW. Infact I would bet he might of had 2200 into that cue, if not more.



Again you're way off base and only because your mad he said your price was high. They didn't do anything wrong on that SW deal no matter how many hypothetical situations you make for it. There isn't a dealer alive that would have treated it any different. You're right people should have ACCURATE information, but there are also 3 sides to every story. Yours, theirs and the truth.

Joe

All of this for the most part is opinion, you have yours, I have mine, nothing to address there. Suffice it to say we disagree.

However, the part about being mad is entirely incorrect. Anyone can ask whatever they want for a cue, supply and demand will dictate if it sells, I understand this.

I'm also perfectly happy with the deal I made in the trade for the Southwest. I got it solely to trade to Don to get his Hercek. I'm perfectly happy with the deal.

But to then see them turn around and tell Don that the cue is valued at $2000 when they just told me it is valued at $2800 just struck me as wrong. All it did was reinforce to me that the cue dealing industry has a severe shortage of honest people. If anything is irritating me it is this.

And then to come here and distort the facts of the deal so much as to just be outright lying is wrong as well. If they (username cueaddicts) didn't know the facts of the deal he should not have spoken about them. That is no excuse.

 

[classiccues]

And my actions here are cowardly how? If we were all face to face I would have no problem saying to yours and cueaddicts faces exactly what I'm typing here.

Good cause I am sure you will get your chance.

I'm here explaining the facts of the deals I was involved in since cueaddicts chose to put their nose someplace it didn't belong. You and they can choose to put whatever spin you like on it. The facts will remain the facts regardless of what you or cueaddicts try to do with them.)

Alright Mike, your prices have been questions on this forum before. Not once did you lash out against any of the people who said that exact same thing. Why Sean? Why take a stab at a reputable dealer? Thats a fact. Talk about agendas. There is no spin to place. It seems to be ok that you can make 1k on a cue and Sean can't make 800 on a cue. Thats about as two faced and hypocritical as anyone would need to see.

Anybody can ask whatever they want to for a cue, that is their decision. But to intentionally mislead (I call it lying) someone as cueaddicts did is pretty shady in my opinion. I'm sorry if you cannot see the difference..

I am still trying to figure out the lying part... they ask 2800 for a cue then get a chance to buy it back from someone totally different and off them 2000 and thats misleading?

I guess those reading this thread will come to their own conclusions about who is being honest and forthright here and who is simply trying to protect their turf.

(Name)

Lets all hope so Mikey, lets all hope so.

Joe

 

[classiccues]

But to then see them turn around and tell Don that the cue is valued at $2000 when they just told me it is valued at $2800 just struck me as wrong. All it did was reinforce to me that the cue dealing industry has a severe shortage of honest people. If anything is irritating me it is this.

And then to come here and distort the facts of the deal so much as to just be outright lying is wrong as well. If they (username cueaddicts) didn't know the facts of the deal he should not have spoken about them. That is no excuse.

Look you got quoted a sell price and Don got a price on a buy. I cannot believe you don't see the difference in this. I know for a fact that you could leave Sean 1 million dollars for a week and when you got back you would still have a million. Dishonesty is not what you are saying here.

Why should he not speak out at them? You needed to speak out about them instead of quantifying the value of the Hercek, which is all you really needed to do.

Joe

 

[UGOTDA7]

Good cause I am sure you will get your chance.



Alright Mike, your prices have been questions on this forum before. Not once did you lash out against any of the people who said that exact same thing. Why Sean? Why take a stab at a reputable dealer? Thats a fact. Talk about agendas. There is no spin to place. It seems to be ok that you can make 1k on a cue and Sean can't make 800 on a cue. Thats about as two faced and hypocritical as anyone would need to see.



I am still trying to figure out the lying part... they ask 2800 for a cue then get a chance to buy it back from someone totally different and off them 2000 and thats misleading?



Lets all hope so Mikey, lets all hope so.

Joe

So you figured out my name finally, all by yourself even? Do you feel better now?

I addressed cueaddicts because they didn't just state an opinion, they in essence flat out lied. They said my prices were twice what Joel would charge for a new cue. I'm certainly willing to wager that this isn't the case. I took this for what it was, a lame attempt to discredit me which warranted a clear reply.

I'll run through this lie slowly, it is fairly simple:

1. Cue was represented as being valued at $2800 to one person when traded away.
2. Exact same cue was represented as being valued at $2000 when taken back in from somebody else by same people only hours later.

Some people would call this good business, some would call it misrepresenting things, some would call it lying. I fall in the latter category.

Questions?

(Name)

 

[UGOTDA7]

Look you got quoted a sell price and Don got a price on a buy. I cannot believe you don't see the difference in this. I know for a fact that you could leave Sean 1 million dollars for a week and when you got back you would still have a million. Dishonesty is not what you are saying here.

Why should he not speak out at them? You needed to speak out about them instead of quantifying the value of the Hercek, which is all you really needed to do.

Joe

I saw that deal as dishonest, others may see it different.

I also know of others who feel they are not completely honest so by no means am I alone in this matter. I have even been told, "I will not deal with those cueaddicts guys again."

The reason people can be dishonest is because the odds of conflicting information being reconciled is pretty low. It just so happens that this time conflicting information met at one location.

People here now at least have some relevant information with which to come to informed conclusions.

(Name)

 

[classiccues]

They said my prices were twice what Joel would charge for a new cue. I'm certainly willing to wager that this isn't the case. I took this for what it was, a lame attempt to discredit me which warranted a clear reply.

No they didn't.. they said "roughly".

1. Cue was represented as being valued at $2800 to one person when traded away.
2. Exact same cue was represented as being valued at $2000 when taken back in from somebody else by same people only hours later.

Some people would call this good business, some would call it misrepresenting things, some would call it lying. I fall in the latter category.

It still doesn't mean anything. If I trade away a cue and I say I want 2800 in trade value it doesn't mean anything. So I trade for a Szamboti, lets say thats 4800.00 so I deduct the 28 from the 48 and I pay the difference. The cue comes back to me later and now I get a chance to buy it back. So the cue is worth 23-25 hundred in resale, 2800 if I get lucky. So I say sure I will buy it, 2k. If everyone is happy when the deals are done... WHO CARES?

WHERE THE HELL IS THE PROBLEM?

If you think its lying, you know nothing about business, or cues, or cue dealing for that matter.

Joe

 

[classiccues]

I saw that deal as dishonest, others may see it different.

I also know of others who feel they are not completely honest so by no means am I alone in this matter. I have even been told, "I will not deal with those cueaddicts guys again."

The reason people can be dishonest is because the odds of conflicting information being reconciled is pretty low. It just so happens that this time conflicting information met at one location.

People here now at least have some relevant information with which to come to informed conclusions.

(Name)

As a business owner, you are going to get along with some people, and some you aren't. Hell right here on this forum a guy tried to ruin a guys business by saying the guy was bad because he said no to a deal. Jeez.. I didn't know as dealers we were supposed to take every offer... But its no diffent than dealers sending up the red flag on buyers.. hell not everyone is going to be happy.

Actually all I have seen here is your interpretation of something that is not even close to what you are calling it. Like I said.. 3 sides to every story.

Joe

 

[UGOTDA7]

No they didn't.. they said "roughly".



It still doesn't mean anything. If I trade away a cue and I say I want 2800 in trade value it doesn't mean anything. So I trade for a Szamboti, lets say thats 4800.00 so I deduct the 28 from the 48 and I pay the difference. The cue comes back to me later and now I get a chance to buy it back. So the cue is worth 23-25 hundred in resale, 2800 if I get lucky. So I say sure I will buy it, 2k. If everyone is happy when the deals are done... WHO CARES?

WHERE THE HELL IS THE PROBLEM?

If you think its lying, you know nothing about business, or cues, or cue dealing for that matter.

Joe

The fact that this happened over a few hours and right across the hall makes this a little different in my opinion. Of course you and others are free to feel otherwise.

Here is part of what cueaddicts said:

"You really have no idea what you are talking about with this, so I'll enlighten you. What happened with this trade deal involving the South West (which btw was not priced at $2800 in our booth)..."

1. I know exactly what I'm talking about with this deal, since I'm who the deal was done with. They didn't know this at the time though.
2. The cue was priced at $2800 in their booth, that is a fact.

Take that for what it worth. I guess that wasn't a lie either when he says the cue wasn't priced at $2800 in their booth? According to you nothing they do could be seen as dishonest, but you are a fellow cue dealer, this is to be expected.

I've been doing this for quite a few years now, dealing in hundreds of cues. I have nothing but satisified customers, many of them repeat buyers. I'm quite confident I know what I'm doing.

(Name)

 

[UGOTDA7]

As a business owner, you are going to get along with some people, and some you aren't. Hell right here on this forum a guy tried to ruin a guys business by saying the guy was bad because he said no to a deal. Jeez.. I didn't know as dealers we were supposed to take every offer... But its no diffent than dealers sending up the red flag on buyers.. hell not everyone is going to be happy.

Actually all I have seen here is your interpretation of something that is not even close to what you are calling it. Like I said.. 3 sides to every story.

Joe

I read that thread as well. As a result of that thread all of the information came out and everyone can now come to an informed opinion. This thread of course will have some of the same affect. I'm a firm believer in getting all of the information out as accurately and factually as possible and let the chips fall where they may.

(Name)