3 HERCEK Cues For Sale

[cuedoctor]

Slinging the mud

Cuedoctor,
Be careful throwing names out there, unless you are going to post your name as well. I think I know who you are, but if you are going to sling mud, do it out in the open. There is nothing worse than a dealer or wanna be dealer taking pot shots at the more established dealers. This is for you to ugotda7, put your real name in your post. Sean you should know better than to sling with, for lack of a better word, terrorists.

1. You price a Southwest at $2800 when you're trading/selling it.
2. It gets traded/sold to someone else a few hours later.
3. When that person approaches you a few hours later to trade it back it to you it is now worth $2000.

This happens for a few reasons. You cannot go by your first deal if the cue has changed hands. Which it has in your example. So if I was to sell a cue, then it was resold to another party and came back to me, then the new deal is exactly that.. a new deal.

I won't comment on your pricing, because as Sean said, its your cue and do with it as you please. Plus I don't disagree with it, its not uncommon to price cues that are hard to get, or a waiting period as 75-125 dollars per year of the wait, as well as ask a premium for a published cue. Its common and both Sean and I would do the same. I have no problem with your asking price, but lets be adults here. Eventually we all deal with each other anyways, so lets kill it here.

I think we all know that one dealer has some new "fishes" and yes, they are driving cue prices up, just as that other "fish" overseas did a few years ago.
Its going to happen, just try and not get caught up int he feeding frenzy, stay reputable and do your thing. Slinging mud in public is not reputable especially doing it anonomously.

Joe (---looking forward to VF

Joe,I have deleted my comments and appologize to any of those who I may have harmed in some way,But this thing has gotten way out of control like that copy right on cue design crap. Basically I have dealt with all of the LONG time dealers and if i dont agree with there prices than I dont buy but we all have to remember that these dealers travel to these shows and spend alot of money in the process to sell these cues and they aint there just for the fun of it,They have to pay bills and eat just like the rest of us. We all try to get the best price on cues and if a price seems high it must be for good reason. Joe,I will come up to you and give you a big hug and at VF if you forgive me.HAHA. The dealers i did mention have all been fair at the shows and I acually look forward to seeing them all and wish i could do what they do because pool cues are supose to be fun,not a attack on peoples personal character

 

[Rackin_Zack]

In my opinion it is preposterous to think that a cue dealer, i.e. someone who makes a living at reselling cues, would buy and sell a cue for the same amount. After all they wouldn't be around for long if they broke even or lost money on every transaction.

Besides that, even if the cue was marked at $2800 in the booth that really has nothing to do with what happened. It's all simple economics; everyone was better off when the trading was though otherwise they wouldn't have done it. If you thought the price of the cue was too high you wouldn't have bought it and if Don thought the offer for the cue was too low he wouldn't have sold it. It's as simple as that. If Don was trying to sell the cue for market value then he shouldn't have sold it to a cue dealer! *Granted I don't know Don and am just using his name since it was used in someone else’s post.*

 

[bruin70]

too late to read all the deleted posts, but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

WHAT'S THE BIG TO-DO!!!!

cue dealing is free market based. two indivisuals engage in a deal of goods based on what they think it's worth to them. how lame does someone have to be not to get the best price possible. i have an 80's fancy SW that i was told i could sell in asia for $8000+,,AND IT'S USED WITH ONE SHAFT(4x what i can get here)! you think i'm going to pussyfoot around in the states

buyers shop for the best deal, and sellers look for the highest price. somewhere they'll meet.

besides, i think hercek would be elated to see the aftermarket sale of his cues skyrocket. in the end, he benefits, and i'm on the cuemakers' side.

 

[classiccues]

Here is part of what cueaddicts said:

"You really have no idea what you are talking about with this, so I'll enlighten you. What happened with this trade deal involving the South West (which btw was not priced at $2800 in our booth)..."

1. I know exactly what I'm talking about with this deal, since I'm who the deal was done with. They didn't know this at the time though.
2. The cue was priced at $2800 in their booth, that is a fact.

Take that for what it worth. I guess that wasn't a lie either when he says the cue wasn't priced at $2800 in their booth? According to you nothing they do could be seen as dishonest, but you are a fellow cue dealer, this is to be expected.

I've been doing this for quite a few years now, dealing in hundreds of cues. I have nothing but satisified customers, many of them repeat buyers. I'm quite confident I know what I'm doing.

(Name)

Ok let me ask you, was there a price tag on the cue for 2800?

Joe

 

[classiccues]

I read that thread as well. As a result of that thread all of the information came out and everyone can now come to an informed opinion. This thread of course will have some of the same affect. I'm a firm believer in getting all of the information out as accurately and factually as possible and let the chips fall where they may.

(Name)

Ok lets get all the info out. When you traded the cue to Don S. for the Hercek, what value did you give him?

Just a recap:
Sean says your cue price is to high, but so has others, but this is the ONLY time you make an issue out of it. I guess all the other guys just didn't have the name recognition cueaddicts does, right?

So now with revenge, the only reason, in mind, you publically convey this deal you know about, you said he (cueaddicts) had a 2800 SW, he says he didn't, you say well I am the guy who got it in trade and that was the price given to me. Sean says OK, but I did not realize that cause there are 3 other people working the booth. (totally understandable by anyone who has been to these shows) The cue changes hands and Don gets offered 2k for the cue, by the booth where you got it from. Again, ok because Don is not you and therefore its a new ballgame. You have an issue with them making 800 but you clearly can make 1000 and its OK.

To boot, you were offered very early on to delete your posts and you could have, but you needed to continue because he called your price crazy high. This was AFTER he deleted his. Not to mention the fact when someone comes in and tries to peacefully end this, you then go ahead and lump that person (me) into some cuedealer conspiracy. Nice. And all this with never once saying who you are.

We can all hope you are correct and people read this and can form their own opinion.

Joe

 

[UGOTDA7]

So now, its ok to say publically, a guy is a bad guy because he didn't accept an offer? I see where you are coming from and there is really no need to continue. Your motive and belief will not change. You were offered very early on to delete your posts and you could have, but you needed to continue because he called your price crazy high. This was AFTER he deleted his. Good luck selling your Hercek. At least maybe, and hopefully you will be correct, people will read this and see what they are dealing with.

Joe

A lot of shady stuff happens in pool cue dealing--from both cue dealers and individuals alike. Anybody that has been doing it for more than a day knows this.

The point is that getting the facts out and hearing both sides of the story helps out everybody. People can choose to spend their money wherever and deal with whomever they want. But they should be able to know as much about a situation as possible in order to be able to come to an informed decision.

Years ago this was not possible, there were limited cue dealers and people who wanted a cue simply had to deal with them. There was no alternative. Now with the amount of competition (a sore point with some people here), wider availability of cues, and the information sharing on the internet, taking advantage of and blowing smoke up people's asses is becoming a thing of the past.

There is a difference between how something is represented vs. how it is priced. It boils down to simple honesty. That is what happened with the example I cited, some people will see this for what it was and some won't. But I'm sure everybody here would have an issue with being told something is worth xxx by supposed experts and then hours later seeing the same people say the value of that something is much less. In my opinion this is just shady, borders on being blatantly unethical, and does nothing but bring discredit to whoever practices this type of thing.

Of course anybody is free to say that this is just business, that is the way it is done, everybody has to make a buck, take it or leave it, etc. There isn't anything wrong with that. I have a feeling they would change their tune though if they got screwed on a deal. I have no problem sharing my experiences either good or bad as I have nothing to hide and no ties to any of you cue dealers that influence my opinions. Likewise, you and others are free to share your opinions and hopefully some facts to back them up as well. The bottom line is that people out there with an interest in cues simply deserve to know how others do business.

 

[cueaddicts]

Mike,

In summary, you have proved nothing...well, a few things I guess:

1. We traded you a SW for a Phillippi
2. Don got the SW from you in a deal
3. We then bought the same SW back from Don for $2100 in another trade/buy deal
4. We then traded the exact same SW for a Richard Black, which we still have
5. I said that I think your price was too high on the Hercek

(all factual)

So, at this show we traded two cues with customers and bought a cue (3 separate deals)....again, money out opf our pockets. Sounds to me that we are terrible dealers/people. We worked out a couple of trades and helped someone out buying a cue when they were trying to raise some cash for another cue.

If your feelings have been hurt by my comments on the Hercek price, I apologize for that remark. But for me, this is the end of this insanity !!!!!

Sean

 

[UGOTDA7]

Ok lets get all the info out. When you traded the cue to Don S. for the Hercek, what value did you give him?

Just a recap:
Sean says your cue price is to high, but so has others, but this is the ONLY time you make an issue out of it. I guess all the other guys just didn't have the name recognition cueaddicts does, right?

So now with revenge, the only reason, in mind, you publically convey this deal you know about, you said he (cueaddicts) had a 2800 SW, he says he didn't, you say well I am the guy who got it in trade and that was the price given to me. Sean says OK, but I did not realize that cause there are 3 other people working the booth. (totally understandable by anyone who has been to these shows) The cue changes hands and Don gets offered 2k for the cue, by the booth where you got it from. Again, ok because Don is not you and therefore its a new ballgame. You have an issue with them making 800 but you clearly can make 1000 and its OK.

To boot, you were offered very early on to delete your posts and you could have, but you needed to continue because he called your price crazy high. This was AFTER he deleted his. Not to mention the fact when someone comes in and tries to peacefully end this, you then go ahead and lump that person (me) into some cuedealer conspiracy. Nice. And all this with never once saying who you are.

We can all hope you are correct and people read this and can form their own opinion.

Joe

I have addressed most of your issues already. Please do us all a favor and go back and read the thread again if necessary.

Why would I want to delete my posts? To hide things? I’ll stand behind what I say and do; others should do so as well.

I’m not saying who I am? My username is quite well known. Even you finally put forth the minimal effort of checking a few posts to find out my name. What, do you want a biographical sketch, a credit report, what my favorite color is, my shoe size?

I valued the cue at $2100, as that is what it would most likely sell for and what I have sold comparable Southwests for in the past. There is no way I could have said it was a $2800 cue and keep a straight face. Sorry, I’m not like that and not nearly as practiced as others when it comes to this type of thing.

Sean not knowing the facts of the matter is no excuse. If he didn’t know them he should not have spoken about the matter. No excuse. So you say it understandable for a guy to talk out of his ass when representing a business? Yeah right, is this the old “it must have been the other guy that said that, it wasn’t me” thing? This just shows yet again how they do business.

Why did I address cueaddicts in more detail?

See post number 35:

“I addressed cueaddicts because they didn't just state an opinion, they in essence flat out lied. They said my prices were twice what Joel would charge for a new cue. I'm certainly willing to wager that this isn't the case. I took this for what it was, a lame attempt to discredit me which warranted a clear reply.”

Revenge? Hardly. I took the usual BS inflated price for what it was and worked the deal with a realistic number in mind. I was happy with the deal.

See post number 32:

“I'm also perfectly happy with the deal I made in the trade for the Southwest. I got it solely to trade to Don to get his Hercek. I'm perfectly happy with the deal.”

Cueaddicts chimed in on this thread with incorrect information in a lame attempt to discredit me and opened a can of worms. That was their choice to do so just like it is my choice to continue to respond.

See post number 21:

“But I will say this--I will always take the opportunity to clear up confusion (intentional or otherwise) cast by others upon my cues and how I represent them.”

You can go ahead and continue to drag this out for weeks if you like. People will see this for what it is--fellow cue dealers protecting each other. Unless I get deployed to Iraq I’ll continue to be here to answer the mail. Not a problem.

 

[UGOTDA7]

Mike,

In summary, you have proved nothing...well, a few things I guess:

1. We traded you a SW for a Phillippi
2. Don got the SW from you in a deal
3. We then bought the same SW back from Don for $2100 in another trade/buy deal
4. We then traded the exact same SW for a Richard Black, which we still have
5. I said that I think your price was too high on the Hercek

(all factual)

So, at this show we traded two cues with customers and bought a cue (3 separate deals)....again, money out opf our pockets. Sounds to me that we are terrible dealers/people. We worked out a couple of trades and helped someone out buying a cue when they were trying to raise some cash for another cue.

If your feelings have been hurt by my comments on the Hercek price, I apologize for that remark. But for me, this is the end of this insanity !!!!!

Sean

Are you speaking on behalf of cueaddicts now?

I offered to let this go, see post number 21.

But Joe had to revive it from the deathbed in post 24.

I don't have to "prove" anything. I'm stating the facts of the matter.

And one more fact of the matter is that I gave up some cash as well on that deal.

You didn't just say that you thought the price was too high. You also said my prices were twice (roughly) what Joel charges for a new cue. Did you check this out with Joel prior to that post? I certainly don't think so. Just another example of speaking without having all of the facts.

I'm perfectly willing to let this thread die a withering death. I have said about all I can say on what has already been posted.

 

[larrynj1]

my ass itches.

 

[1pRoscoe]

my ass itches.

Gold Bond medicated powder...

 

[Cannon]

Gold Bond

Gold Bond medicated powder...

LMAO.........now we're talking something that makes sense.

 

[APA7]

my ass itches.

You betta get that taken care of Larry!! You keep saying that over and over


Brian

 

[classiccues]

Are you speaking on behalf of cueaddicts now?

I offered to let this go, see post number 21.

But Joe had to revive it from the deathbed in post 24.

I don't have to "prove" anything. I'm stating the facts of the matter.

And one more fact of the matter is that I gave up some cash as well on that deal.

You didn't just say that you thought the price was too high. You also said my prices were twice (roughly) what Joel charges for a new cue. Did you check this out with Joel prior to that post? I certainly don't think so. Just another example of speaking without having all of the facts.

I'm perfectly willing to let this thread die a withering death. I have said about all I can say on what has already been posted.

I only revived it because of your lame attempt to let it go AFTER you took another pot shot. Again, I need to agree hopefully things like this will be read and seen for what they really are.

Joe

 

[1pRoscoe]

I suggest the originator of the thread delete it. This is nothing but a school yard pissing contest.

 

[classiccues]

I valued the cue at $2100, as that is what it would most likely sell for and what I have sold comparable Southwests for in the past. There is no way I could have said it was a $2800 cue and keep a straight face. Sorry, I’m not like that and not nearly as practiced as others when it comes to this type of thing..

Good, are you telling us that you made a deal at 2800 knowing damn well it was a 2100 cue? Now you are mad about it? What about the real truth that Don didn't want your Phillipi and these guys took your trade so that you could get your Hercek. Or that maybe a 2200 dollar SW is actually easier to move than a 5k Phillippi. Or that maybe Phillippi offers very high discounts and that you were only into your Phillipi for 2500, so the trade was actually an even up trade, and you still just need to get even with Sean for saying you had a high price? But in reality when you accepted a trade for the Phillippi you did not protect the integrity of pricing structure of Philippi in the process. (had you gotten new from them) Showing why cuemakers need to research their dealers more.

Sean not knowing the facts of the matter is no excuse. If he didn’t know them he should not have spoken about the matter. No excuse. So you say it understandable for a guy to talk out of his ass when representing a business? Yeah right, is this the old “it must have been the other guy that said that, it wasn’t me” thing? This just shows yet again how they do business...

You obviously have spent your life working alone. If you worked in any type of group dynamic you would know these things happen. It doesn't relect one iota on how they do business.

Cueaddicts chimed in on this thread with incorrect information in a lame attempt to discredit me and opened a can of worms. That was their choice to do so just like it is my choice to continue to respond...

He said your price was high.. get a grip. I hear it all the time. If I went after everyone who told me that, I would need to make it a full time job. Sure but coincidently you only went after someone with a name when others you let go. Again, it shows alot for motive.

You can go ahead and continue to drag this out for weeks if you like. People will see this for what it is--fellow cue dealers protecting each other. Unless I get deployed to Iraq I’ll continue to be here to answer the mail. Not a problem.

Sure it is, its two well established cue dealers going after a smaller cue dealer. Woo its a conspiracy to keep Mike down.. yeehaaw.

Joe

 

[classiccues]

Years ago this was not possible, there were limited cue dealers and people who wanted a cue simply had to deal with them. There was no alternative. Now with the amount of competition (a sore point with some people here), wider availability of cues, and the information sharing on the internet, taking advantage of and blowing smoke up people's asses is becoming a thing of the past. .

I don't think competition is a bad thing. Thats why we list links to competitor sites on our own site. But let me tell you, if I was to air out every problem I ever had with people, or like some people, perceived problems, AZ would need a new server.

There is a difference between how something is represented vs. how it is priced. .

Ok.. I would like you to show me the difference. You go to a show, and there is a cue, you ask how much, the guy says 2800. You say either ok, or no thanks. Now if the guy says it was a South West and Efren used it to win the 200* whatever and he didn't, thats misrepresentation.

It boils down to simple honesty. That is what happened with the example I cited, some people will see this for what it was and some won't. But I'm sure everybody here would have an issue with being told something is worth xxx by supposed experts and then hours later seeing the same people say the value of that something is much less. In my opinion this is just shady, borders on being blatantly unethical, and does nothing but bring discredit to whoever practices this type of thing..

Again.. its a buy price vs a sell price. If I sell a SW for 2500 and a different guy brings it back to me 5 minutes later, am I supposed to give him 2500 for it? Maybe I should give him 2700, hell sounds like you like charity, maybe you should bring me a cue so I can lose some money. I wonder how many times you thought you should lose money on a cue. So now Murphy should have given Don, 3k for the cue just to make YOU happy. I have to say this is the most humorous debate I have had yet. I guess we all need to lose money to make you happy. There was absolutely nothing done incorrectly, all this because someone said your price was high. At least I get a good laugh. I know this might be foreign to you, but in business they call it buy low sell hi. It works, trust me. The real kicker to me here, is the fact they took in a mutt for a purebred and you're mad at them.

The bottom line is that people out there with an interest in cues simply deserve to know how others do business.

This is true and I don't think anyone dealing in these types of cues thinks dealers are out to lose money.

Let me say this, you can go into any booth and get this same scenario. Bring a SW into a dealers booth, he will offer you on average 1500-1800 for the cue depending on woods, etc.. But he will have one for sale for 2500. So whats the problem? This is an every day occurance. The realistic scenario is someone is going to offer him 2200-2000 for the SW and thats proabably what he will get. Thats why he must offer you the lower price on your cue. This is all you ran into, and you are trying to make it a bigger deal than it is, because a dealer said he thought your prices were to high. Nice.

Joe

 

[classiccues]

I suggest the originator of the thread delete it. This is nothing but a school yard pissing contest.

Actually.. if you get through the crap there is some very good material there.
Its like the internet, you need to find that 1% of useful info.

Joe

 

[poolchady]

I think we all know that one dealer has some new "fishes" and yes, they are driving cue prices up, just as that other "fish" overseas did a few years ago.

Joe (---looking forward to VF

NOT ME~


Chady (---looking forward to VF TOO~

 

[UGOTDA7]

Good, are you telling us that you made a deal at 2800 knowing damn well it was a 2100 cue? Now you are mad about it? What about the real truth that Don didn't want your Phillipi and these guys took your trade so that you could get your Hercek. Or that maybe a 2200 dollar SW is actually easier to move than a 5k Phillippi. Or that maybe Phillippi offers very high discounts and that you were only into your Phillipi for 2500, so the trade was actually an even up trade, and you still just need to get even with Sean for saying you had a high price? But in reality when you accepted a trade for the Phillippi you did not protect the integrity of pricing structure of Philippi in the process. (had you gotten new from them) Showing why cuemakers need to research their dealers more.



You obviously have spent your life working alone. If you worked in any type of group dynamic you would know these things happen. It doesn't relect one iota on how they do business.



He said your price was high.. get a grip. I hear it all the time. If I went after everyone who told me that, I would need to make it a full time job. Sure but coincidently you only went after someone with a name when others you let go. Again, it shows alot for motive.



Sure it is, its two well established cue dealers going after a smaller cue dealer. Woo its a conspiracy to keep Mike down.. yeehaaw.

Joe

You just can't let it go can you?

You really should learn to read. I said I was happy with the deal. I suggest you print this out and leave it next to your computer for future reference.

I'm wondering how it is that you can speak about a deal you had nothing to do with? Cueaddicts can't even keep it straight, why do you think you have any input in the matter? I guess you just like to talk out of your ass as well. I hope this isn't contagious.

FYI, Don wanted the Phillippi along with everybody else there. If you saw it in person you would want it as well. It really is quite a cue, one of the best designs they have done.

More info for you since you obviously need some help, but don't worry, I'm here for you. I sold one almost exactly like it (steel joint instead of ivory) for $3500 about a month prior. And Phillippi sold one very similar for $4500 about a month prior to that. So all of your nonsensical frothing at the mouth about that cue is just that.

I do not work alone, never have. I'm currently in the Army and have been for a number of years. I have commanded units numbering close to 300 soldiers. I think I know a thing or two about group dynamics. I simply believe that one should take responsibility for what one does and says. I have nothing to hide and will not pawn off my shortcomings on others. Too bad some others here don't believe in this simple aspect commonly associated with honest behavior.

By the way, I was checking out your website and saw the Mottey with "Reign Man" in the butt cap. You said it has been refinished by Paul. When was it refinished?

(Name)