30" shaft question

Catalin said:
Thank you very much for your answers. Here are some pictures of the tip, measurement and gap between butt and shaft. Before I speak with the maker, I wanted to know what was acceptable.

If I order a 30" shaft and pay an extra fee for it then it should be 30" not less I think. It's as simple as that.
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The reason I asked about a capped ferule is obvious now that I see the photo. This ferule appears too short to be capped. This means that if you remove the tip you will see the wood of the tenon exposed in the center. In order to have a short ferule it pretty much has to be done this way as the tenon wouldn't be long enough otherwise.

Unless the cue maker has access to some unusual wood stock the shaft wood begins at 30 inches. To true up both ends and have a short ferule like that you will lose a bit of length. This shaft could have the ferule replaced with a longer capped one and come in at exactly 30 inches like you want but the hit would change. The question is would you notice like you did that it was a little short? Would you be happier if the ferule was longer and the shaft was exactly 30 inches? If so it's an easy fix.

JC
 
I don't know where to start so I will start with some humor.

Go to Home Despot, buy some 2x4's and sue them because they are only 1 1/2" by 3 1/2".

People do ask me how long is a 60" cue, it's 60" without measuring the rubber bumper or the tip, I Thank them for asking.

Same with the shaft, 30" without the tip.

That does not mean the guy who made yours is wrong, it may simply be the way he measures his and sells them, that's his way of doing things.


I agree with others who have no idea WHY you bring this in here without the ability to tell us what the cuemaker said.


The woodgrain looks like a corkscrew, not straight at all, that is camp firewood, return it.
 
Catalin said:
Much appreciated. One more question: the edge of the joint collar is rounded instead of razor straight, therefore slightly reducing the contact surface between the butt and the shaft and visually accentuating the gap. Is this normal?
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:frown:


Certainly normal for OB Cues................





.
 
I used to play golf with a kinda(seriously actually) AR dude. We agreed that 2ft. putts would be considered "good". One day he showed-up and had a small tape-measure in his bag. Last time i ever saw the guy. Haven't thought about that dude til now.
 
JC said:
The reason I asked about a capped ferule is obvious now that I see the photo. This ferule appears too short to be capped. This means that if you remove the tip you will see the wood of the tenon exposed in the center. In order to have a short ferule it pretty much has to be done this way as the tenon wouldn't be long enough otherwise.

Unless the cue maker has access to some unusual wood stock the shaft wood begins at 30 inches. To true up both ends and have a short ferule like that you will lose a bit of length. This shaft could have the ferule replaced with a longer capped one and come in at exactly 30 inches like you want but the hit would change. The question is would you notice like you did that it was a little short? Would you be happier if the ferule was longer and the shaft was exactly 30 inches? If so it's an easy fix.

JC
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He does. Long shaft blanks are readily available from one of the largest cue making supply places. Shaft blanks starting over 30" isn't the norm, but having a few blanks over 30" on hand for long shaft requests shouldn't be viewed as unusual or difficult.
 
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mikeyfrost said:
Why berate the guy instead of educating him? You're a professional with a great reputation especially around your work, your post will not feel good when the OP reads it. Responses like yours really turn people off and quite frankly they aren't appropriate and are beneath you. You had an opportunity to pass along some good jewels and instead of being positive you chose the condescending route. That makes you a dickhead.

P.S. No*
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What you call condescending is actually someone being real-world honest.
Sorry my post didn't meet your standards. That wasn't considered. But condescending ?
How is that the 'condescending route' ? He's being anal, he admits it and I agree with him.
The shock value of my post was intentional. It got your attention but did it reach the OP ?
Most would agree that the issues he has with the shaft would be inconsequential by any reasonable standard.
Fretting about 1/4" on a 59" cue is silly. As I stated, it can change that much with a tip change.
But now that it's an issue, now that it's in his head, he needs to resolve this quickly. You know this.
Being an enabler to his anxiety won't solve this for him. It will only delay reality, ie, it don't matter.

"That makes you a dickhead." Thanx for the kind words. Luv you too.

----------

Now, I'd like to publicly acknowledge JC's brilliant contribution regarding a capped ferrule.
As Ryan would say, "Winner, winner, chicken dinner". A little sorry I hadn't thought of it. Lol
Again Dude, Brilliant.

KJ
 
Last year, I met a professional cue builder while working in Minnesota.
I asked him to please build a 30"inch, 14mm at ferrule, 4oz canadian rock maple shaft.
The hit, texture, impact, the telegraph, all was spot on.
Shaft was appx 7/32nds off it's target length, guy busted a nut crafting it for me.
Just Saying.
 
Hi Catalin. I agree you are a bit anal, but you also strike me as reasonable. You don't seem to be here to vilify the cuemaker, so I see no reason to vilify you.

Regarding the rounded or chamfered joint collar edges, as stated, some do that. I prefer a smooth feel across the joint so provide free joint protectors with every purchase knowing sharp edges are more prone to chipping. On this, now that you know one reason behind it, you can decide which style you prefer and inquire about this when considering future custom cue orders.

Regarding the unshaped tip, that strikes me as odd. While I can dream up scenarios where it would be possible with a custom builder, it makes me think this cue came from a production company. I have faith, right or wrong, that the normal practice for all custom builders is to test hit every cue/shaft they ship. In the end, this is of no real consequence since it can be shaped, but it just doesn't instill confidence getting it that way.

Regarding the length of the shaft, I personally feel like you have a right to expect what you ordered. You stated you paid extra for a 30" shaft. Everyone that I know of, and the places I found when I looked for opinions on this subject long ago, all use joint face to end of ferrule. It has been stated that every time a tip is changed the total length of the shaft changes. Well, that is why the measurement is to the end of the ferrule...so the measurement is consistent regardless of tip thickness. Also, unless I am suddenly unable to read a measuring tape, the length of the shaft looks closer to 29 5/8" than the speculated 1/4" short. The actual length depends on how tight you had that tape up against the ferrule, but I bet an anal guy would know this and would have held it close.

I am of the opinion that if you paid extra for a 30" shaft and you received a 29 5/8" long shaft you have a valid reason to be disappointed. When shaft diameters are typically reported/requested to tenths of mm, and weights are reported/requested to tenths of ounces, 3/8" error on length sounds out of tolerance to me. If the cuemaker actually measures shaft length to the end of the tip, then he isn't wrong, but he is different than what is expected and should explain that difference. I doubt he measures differently though. I suspect his standard 29" shafts are 29" to the end of the ferrule, not 28 5/8". If every one of his 29" shafts are 28 5/8" to the ferrule, he would probably be known as someone who makes shorter than normal shafts.
 
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I think it's clear what needs to happen in this situation.

You only received 119/120th of the product you paid for.

Your only reasonable option is to contact the maker and request a refund for 1/120th of the purchase price, or 0.8333333% .


The best part of this is that the math is easy. Assuming you paid $120 for the shaft, the cuemaker would owe you $1.

Or, you know, you could just go play pool...
 
KJ Cues said:
Yes, you are anal, to an alarming degree.
The handle is typically 29". Add a 30" shaft and you're at 59".
You're whining because you only measure 58-3/4". Are you serious ???
OK, here's another buzz-killer for you to consider.
The length of your shaft will change every time you change a tip.
Not all tips are the same thickness so which tip will you go with to maintain 30" ?
As you play, you're reducing that thickness; chalking, scuffing, shaping, oh my.
Here's another : Where is it written that a 30" shaft can't include the tip in it's length.
I'll believe you, just show me.

The maker of that shaft did you a solid upgrade with the slight radius at the face.
Yes, you are anal and you know nothing about cue construction and the physics involved.
Shawn, Joey, et al, are CMs and know what they are talking about. We do this for a living.
That "razor straight" edge at the face that you desire will lead to the finish chipping.
The maker knows this. He's out in front preventing this from occurring yet you see it as
an area where you got cheated (again). How does the shaft play or does that even matter ?
Don't look now but your handle has a radius at the face also and they match.
The expanded contact-area that you speak of is absent from both sides. The shaft alone won't do it.

Why did you come here first rather than take your concerns to the one who made the shaft ?
People's opinions won't change facts, even if they agree with your expectations.
Trust me, I know the value of a good rant, I do it all the time.
The difference is that I do mine in private. That way, no one is alerted to my ignorance.
Talk to the maker, not the gallery. He knows his work and why, the gallery is only guessing.

KJ
Click to expand...

AMEN....................... LOL

Kim
 
maybe i'm in the minority, but i think you should get what you specified and paid for. i play with a 60" cue with both butt and shaft being 30" and it would drive me nuts knowing one or the other was off. as for the joint, it doesn't look good to me, but if that's what this particular cuemaker does and you didn't specify otherwise, then that's on you
 
Shaft length, collar cupping or whatever you call it and any other cue specifications should have a benchmark or standard that covers these type of things.

Threads like this educate those of us who are ignorant of what is a standard.

JoeyA
 
I can see the frustration Catalin and since I happen to know the maker, I think this is a case of what can happen when things go too quickly...
I don't think you ever would notice if you didn't measure the shaft.
The tip could use a trimming, as for the slight facing of the edges isn't that uncommon, and the maker who made your cue has done so on all the cues I have seen.
Only you can determine if your happy or not. I would play with the shaft, if you like it, don't think more about it.
If not bring it to the attention of the maker.
 
If you order a car with four wheels, and it only comes with three, you would complain, right?

If you buy a cinema ticket and the projector shuts off 5 minutes before the end of the movie, you would complain, right?

So if you order a 30" stick, and it's not 30" you should complain and let the maker put it right. It's not rocket science.

At the very least it would tell you the person that made it doesn't quality check their work, and sends out defective products.

Any cue makers defending someone who sends out faulty stuff hoping people don't check are the type of "craftsmen" who would likely do the same to their paying customers - but given the attitudes towards criminal activity that certain members have already stated, that won't be a surprise.
 
Is a quarter inch too short going to make the shaft any less playable? Probably not.

But there is no scenario that doesn't involve apathy on the part of the builder of it that would allow it to be delivered 1/4 inch short. It's not complicated. I have a rack of really nice shafts that I screwed up something on and some day they will work perfectly for something else. Or not. This shaft should have gone there. At the very least you should have been contacted and informed it was cobbled up and made the decision to accept it or not. No way a guy working with .001" regularly didn't notice .250" off. Not a chance.

JC
 
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