3c cue

[seanandnik]

I am surprised to see the shortage of cue builders who build carom cues. I know of a few, Dieckman, Kilby, Schuler and the big ones like Longoni, Adam and such. Anyone know of any other up and comers who make a wood pinned carom cue ? is it because of the difficulty in constructing the wood pin in the shaft ? I would say this site is 99.5% pool cues, just my ramblings...

 

[cueman]

I am surprised to see the shortage of cue builders who build carom cues. I know of a few, Dieckman, Kilby, Schuler and the big ones like Longoni, Adam and such. Anyone know of any other up and comers who make a wood pinned carom cue ? is it because of the difficulty in constructing the wood pin in the shaft ? I would say this site is 99.5% pool cues, just my ramblings...

I would not say that there are only a few who build carom cues, but instead I would say there are only a few who specialize in carom cues. I build them once in a while and so do many others. But your percentage of 99.5% of pool cues would probably go right along with the percentage of players who actually play carom games here in the USA. I would guess it is probably less than 1 out of 200 players here in the states that play carom games. It is not really so difficult to build the wood screw on the shaft, if you are set up for thread milling. It is just that in truth the steel pins are more popular for pool cues and pool cues are more popular than carom cues, so most don't even bother to learn how to it. Chuck Starkey has made the wood screw his normal pool cue pin and could probably build carom cues as well if he wanted to. But he puts the pin in the butt. I did the same thing on the carom cue I built for myself.

 

[Lexicologist71]

Ray Schuler had quite a following in billiards and those who were taught by him and continue making cues under his name are also popular in billiards. Schuler did not use a wood screw.

 

[cueman]

Ray Schuler had quite a following in billiards and those who were taught by him and continue making cues under his name are also popular in billiards. Schuler did not use a wood screw.

You are dead on with this one. Schuler's claim to fame was his shaft tapers and interchangeable shafts.
I once built a pool cue for a guy and later he sent me a Schuler carom shaft and asked me to build him a butt to match it to play 3 cushion with. He said Schuler made the best billiard shaft taper out there.

 

[whammo57]

OK.... I am totally ignorant of this subject.

What specifications for a 3C cue differ from a pool cue? Are wooden threads on the shaft that important? Why?

Thanks

Kim

 

[cueman]

OK.... I am totally ignorant of this subject.

What specifications for a 3C cue differ from a pool cue? Are wooden threads on the shaft that important? Why?

Thanks

Kim

Carom cues are usually shorter and stiffer than pool cues. Many snooker and carom cuemakers prefer to make the joint pin part of the shaft wood. Some feel it makes a more natural hit. Others think it makes them stiffer. I feel it is like the argument over which is the best joint pin: the Radial, 3/8-10, Uni-Loc, 5/16 flat faced or piloted, etc... Just add the wood thread joint to the debate. They all have their little differences in how the cue feels and the one that someone likes best is best for them.

 

[whammo57]

Carom cues are usually shorter and stiffer than pool cues. Many snooker and carom cuemakers prefer to make the joint pin part of the shaft wood. Some feel it makes a more natural hit. Others think it makes them stiffer. I feel it is like the argument over which is the best joint pin: the Radial, 3/8-10, Uni-Loc, 5/16 flat faced or piloted, etc... Just add the wood thread joint to the debate. They all have their little differences in how the cue feels and the one that someone likes best is best for them.

Thanks Chris,

I had a break cue with the male threads on the shaft... it didn't seem special to me. Now I make my own break cue and put a water buffalo tip on it. It feels better to me. I guess that was your point.

Kim

 

[Mcues]

I am surprised to see the shortage of cue builders who build carom cues. I know of a few, Dieckman, Kilby, Schuler and the big ones like Longoni, Adam and such. Anyone know of any other up and comers who make a wood pinned carom cue ? is it because of the difficulty in constructing the wood pin in the shaft ? I would say this site is 99.5% pool cues, just my ramblings...

I started playing billiards about a year ago in order to get a better feel for building carom cues. I found that I could build a stiff cue that can move the heavy billiard balls easily and made wooden threads unnecessary, simply adopted some of the procedures I use in pool cues to a greater extend and different selection of woods. I mostly play billiards now.

Of course this is my personal opinion and choice but I do want to play with the best possible cue I can possibly come up with.

Mario

 

[Lexicologist71]

I've played with cues with steel joints that felt like marshmallows. Supposedly, all steel jointed cues hit more firmly than wood to wood joints. Wood to wood joints are supposed to be 'softer'. My Schulers hit quite firm with any of the different tapers that I have. There's a lot more to 'feel' than just the joint screw. Hardness of tip, ferrule, joint collar, density of shaft wood, stiffness of shaft taper, type of wood used in forearm, and overall weight of the cue will all effect feedback from the cueball. Realistically, what type of screw a cuemaker uses shouldn't impact the hit as long as both faces of the joint are firmly pressed together (the screws reason for existence). That's my opinion. Others will vary.

 

[whammo57]

I've played with cues with steel joints that felt like marshmallows. Supposedly, all steel jointed cues hit more firmly than wood to wood joints. Wood to wood joints are supposed to be 'softer'. My Schulers hit quite firm with any of the different tapers that I have. There's a lot more to 'feel' than just the joint screw. Hardness of tip, ferrule, joint collar, density of shaft wood, stiffness of shaft taper, type of wood used in forearm, and overall weight of the cue will all effect feedback from the cueball. Realistically, what type of screw a cuemaker uses shouldn't impact the hit as long as both faces of the joint are firmly pressed together (the screws reason for existence). That's my opinion. Others will vary.

IMPO once the 2 halves are joined tightly, the screw really has no function or affect on the hit or feel of a cue. I have been using the 5/16 - 18 pin but I am changing to the 3/8 - 10 because it seems easier to install easier and more accurately, plus no one can seem to find the extra 5 seconds in their life to screw the cue together with the finer thread.

I have seen all the hype of different joint pins affecting the hit but I think that is just what it is.....Sales Hype.


I picture the SS joint as a hard layer in the length of the cue. I believe it is like sonar looking down in deep water and is reflected back from a layer of water that is denser because of temperature stratification. I think the compression shock wave caused by hitting the cue ball is reflected back up the shaft by the SS joint because it is a denser layer and this lessens the feel of the hit to the player's hand.

I know that some will disagree with me but I think a SS joint actually feels like a softer hit than a wood to wood joint.


Just my thoughts...

Kim

 

[desi2960]

lexicologist 71 and whammo57 a question

if you were to take an old one piece cue, cut it in half and install a steel pin and steel joint would it hit firmer, softer or the same?

i really need to know


chuck starkey

 

[whammo57]

if you were to take an old one piece cue, cut it in half and install a steel pin and steel joint would it hit firmer, softer or the same?

i really need to know


chuck starkey

A 2 piece cue will never hit as solid as a 1 piece cue.... JMO

I think the steel joint will make it hit softer.... many others will disagree.

I suggest that you try some different cues to see for your self and make your own decision. Other components will also affect the hit. For example: the rubber bumper was originally sold as a vibration damper not just so you could hit the butt on the floor without chipping the cue.

Kim

 

[desi2960]

whammo57

i have tried all of the 347 cues that i have built in the last 7-8 years and i know how i feel. i am just trying to get opinions of others. thank you for your input.
chuck

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

A 2 piece cue will never hit as solid as a 1 piece cue.... JMO

I think the steel joint will make it hit softer.... many others will disagree.

I suggest that you try some different cues to see for your self and make your own decision. Other components will also affect the hit. For example: the rubber bumper was originally sold as a vibration damper not just so you could hit the butt on the floor without chipping the cue.

Kim

Has anybody EVER seen a one piece cue? I have been playing for over 55 years and I never have.

 

[Mcues]

if you were to take an old one piece cue, cut it in half and install a steel pin and steel joint would it hit firmer, softer or the same?

i really need to know


chuck starkey

Chuck,

I think anytime you interrupt the schock waves(joint) it creates a different feel even if its with the same material. Here again, some materials will transfer or even amplify better than others. I'm of the opinion that the stainless joint acts more like a damper thus less schock coming back. Feel is very subjective is the actual hit softer or does it just feel softer, now we get into performance and whatever our aim is . Love to hear your thoughts on it.

Mario

 

[desi2960]

i first played at 5 years old, i'm 68 you do the math

the thread police must have got their high heels stuck in their panty hose today. i was simply using terminology most sane people use to describe an bar style cue. this cue is most of the time made of a 4 prong butt section spliced into a forearm, a rubber bumper [ sometimes with a screw and other times without ], a ferrule and a tip. many call this type of cue a one piece cue, meaning that you cannot unscrew them into 2 different sections for easier transportation.
in the future maybe i should to check with my attorney before i voice my opinion.

 

[whammo57]

Has anybody EVER seen a one piece cue? I have been playing for over 55 years and I never have.

How about a "permanently assembled" cue ????

good point

lol


Kim

 

[whammo57]

i have tried all of the 347 cues that i have built in the last 7-8 years and i know how i feel. i am just trying to get opinions of others. thank you for your input.
chuck

Can you share your own thoughts?? If you have hit 347 different cues, you must have formed an opinion.

Kim

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Making a custom cue hit as good as a house cue really is not that difficult.

 

[seanandnik]

many reasons

there are many reasons a 3c cue is diff from a pool cue, not just shaft taper. The balance point on a 3c is more towards the front of the cue to keep the heavier balls moving whereas a pool balance is towards the rear as to stop the cue ball, also a smaller ferrule, much stiffer taper and a slightly smaller butt to allow for the rubber overgrip most 3cers use. Also most 3c cues i have seen tend to be wrapless to allow for said overwrap. I have hit a schuler and I like my Kilby wood joint much better, I also liked a Dieckman I hit as well. I have never hit a Lambros ultra joint 3c cue and have posted a few times here looking for the few that exist but to no avail, and I would like to hit a Layani joint too. Just my opinions...