4-1/8” Corners at the Derby?

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Bring back the jump rod for those of us that can't jump with jump cues. The jump rod is no more unreasonable than a jump cue and if you can't jump with one of them it is because you can't find the cue ball!

About the pockets, they went the wrong way. Wanna make it exciting, make it four and a half inch pockets on the nines, five inch on the big foot. Bigger pockets would bring more excitement than smaller pockets and that's a fact! 4.5" to 4.75" corners on the nines, Five to five and a quarter inch corners on the ten, then we would see a scramble!

Hu
 

jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bring back the jump rod for those of us that can't jump with jump cues. The jump rod is no more unreasonable than a jump cue and if you can't jump with one of them it is because you can't find the cue ball!

About the pockets, they went the wrong way. Wanna make it exciting, make it four and a half inch pockets on the nines, five inch on the big foot. Bigger pockets would bring more excitement than smaller pockets and that's a fact! 4.5" to 4.75" corners on the nines, Five to five and a quarter inch corners on the ten, then we would see a scramble!

Hu
Bigger is not necessarily better but 4.5 on the big table is fine. They can come to Buffalo’s and practice on the 10’er with 4 1/4 corners. That table plays good, you just have to hit ‘em good
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Bigger is not necessarily better but 4.5 on the big table is fine. They can come to Buffalo’s and practice on the 10’er with 4 1/4 corners. That table plays good, you just have to hit ‘em good

I don't get down to Buff's very often. I whacked balls around a few times on the snooker table, I think one of the few that did! I'll have to try to get down and see how poorly I shoot on the ten before it is gone.

Hu
 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
Silly tight pockets are great if you want a game dominated by a handful of super competitors and autists, but if you're wondering where the cowboys have gone, maybe consider loosening things up
I think the Eurobots would probably string twice as many racks together but maybe a mortal may have a chance of catching lightning in a bottle.

I'm fine with jump cues, but having just watched the DCC bigfoot it was fun having no jump cues allowed. There were quite a few safety/kicking battles that were fun to watch. And Shane pulled off two great full-cue jumps to get out of being buried that were really that much more impressive given the novelty, difficulty, and circumstances. I have to say the tournament was much more enjoyable to watch because of the jump cue rules.
Yeah, the jump cues make jumping too easy. I can barely clear a dime with a full cue and can easily jump over a ball with a jump cue. I mainly don't like needing another cue. What's next? A draw cue and another cue for spin shots? Would the game be improved if everyone needs to bring 5 cues?
 

Vahmurka

...and I get all da rolls
Silver Member
A draw cue and another cue for spin shots? Would the game be improved if everyone needs to bring 5 cues?
I've heard a theory that suggest exactly this. A special cue for a certain shot. Just the way trick shot artists have it. But I prefer good old times of the beginning of XX century, hands down. Back then a player was operating with a single stick only (and the game was played as 2D).
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All I'm saying is the jump cue isn't the magic wand everyone makes it out to be. Many times that "good hit" is a sell out and a loss.

I've never seen a pro, on tape or otherwise say they don't like to use jump cues. If there is, point me to them.

As for jumping full cue, do you believe a person using a hard tip has an advantage over someone using a soft tip? The discussion will end up being we should ban hard tips... or jumping altogether.

If you listen to interviews and commentary it's in there about them not liking jump cues. I don't know exact spots or matches to point you to, but every time someone asked a pro about jump cues the closest they have come to saying they liked them was "it's in the game so I use it" and many say "I would rather they did not but they are so I use them". Mark Wilson, Jeremy Jones, Earl I know say it often, any time you watch a jump shot, listen to what the commentators say about it and if there are interview questions about the jump cue, as long as they are not trying to say bad things due to the sponsorship product they use, the players say the same thing. But you can tell when someone is just trying to be nice vs someone that states what their actual beliefs are. Especially players over like 25.

No issue with using a hard tip, or jumping in general. Hard tips may make a jump shot easier, but not by that much, jump cues turn impossible shots or shots that normally take a lot of practice and skill into trivial ones. I just think they need to have a stricter weight and length limit on cues. If you can't have a 20 lb 50 inch long 12 inch wide bat in baseball we should not be having 65" cues or 30" 8 oz cues. The sport should be set up to have some sort of a difficulty level in the rules, not make it easier so everyone can do it, up to a point.

Pool like other sports evolved over time as we saw what worked and what was not so good, a jump cue introduced in pool is like some guy entering a car in NASCAR with a 200 hp advantage and no one saying anything, or having a player grab a smaller basketball to shoot a free throw. Look at the silliness caused by someone saying Brady used a ball with a tiny bit less air. Other sports have good equipment regulation, we should also. Golf you can't play properly the way it is without different clubs, it's like making a woodworker use only one tool for everything, but we sure as hell can play pool the way it just fine without jump cues. Just because some shots are harder than others does not mean it's a thing that we should make easier, there are simply harder shots one needs to play. If someone is on the rail far from the object ball they can't just say "oh it's far, I should be allowed to move it 6 inches off the rail", it's simply a hard shot they need to deal with somehow with what they have on hand, their skill.

Set a nice range where there are options for the players but not that it's something silly. Say 62" and 56" as max and min ratios, and limit weights to say 25oz (since that is what many of the heavy break cues are) and 16 oz minimum. That should be more than enough for tall or short players or just those that like a different size cue.

Many pro equipment standards are different than amateur or even college sports, I don't see why it would be an issue not to have jump cues outside of maybe trick shot events or fun circus events like Mosconi Cup. Any event ranked for "pro points" or whatever the latest point system is out there, pro level equipment standards are enforced. This way Joe McShooter league dude can still jump to his heart's content with a jump cue and make the cuemakers happy with sales and we are not seeing safety play or mistakes being ruined by jump cues at the pro level.
 
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buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you listen to interviews and commentary it's in there about them not liking jump cues. I don't know exact spots or matches to point you to, but every time someone asked a pro about jump cues the closest they have come to saying they liked them was "it's in the game so I use it" and many say "I would rather they did not but they are so I use them". Mark Wilson, Jeremy Jones, Earl I know say it often, any time you watch a jump shot, listen to what the commentators say about it and if there are interview questions about the jump cue, as long as they are not trying to say bad things due to the sponsorship product they use, the players say the same thing. But you can tell when someone is just trying to be nice vs someone that states what their actual beliefs are. Especially players over like 25.

No issue with using a hard tip, or jumping in general. Hard tips may make a jump shot easier, but not by that much, jump cues turn impossible shots or shots that normally take a lot of practice and skill into trivial ones. I just think they need to have a stricter weight and length limit on cues. If you can't have a 20 lb 50 inch long 12 inch wide bat in baseball we should not be having 65" cues or 30" 8 oz cues. The sport should be set up to have some sort of a difficulty level in the rules, not make it easier so everyone can do it, up to a point.

Pool like other sports evolved over time as we saw what worked and what was not so good, a jump cue introduced in pool is like some guy entering a car in NASCAR with a 200 hp advantage and no one saying anything, or having a player grab a smaller basketball to shoot a free throw. Look at the silliness caused by someone saying Brady used a ball with a tiny bit less air. Other sports have good equipment regulation, we should also.

Set a nice range where there are options for the players but not that it's something silly. Say 62" and 56" as max and min ratios, and limit weights to say 25oz (since that is what many of the heavy break cues are) and 16 oz minimum. That should be more than enough for tall or short players or just those that like a different size cue.

Many pro equipment standards are different than amateur or even college sports, I don't see why it would be an issue not to have jump cues outside of maybe trick shot events or fun circus events like Mosconi Cup. Any event ranked for "pro points" or whatever the latest point system is out there, pro level equipment standards are enforced. This way Joe McShooter league dude can still jump to his heart's content with a jump cue and make the cuemakers happy with sales and we are not seeing safety play or mistakes being ruined by jump cues at the pro level.
I get it. I respect your opinion. But there is something you haven't taken into account. Outside of the pros (Earl comes to mind) or some good shortstops, jumping with a full cue isn't going to happen. What's more likely to happen is the cloth will be damaged by lower skilled players attempting it. I've seen it happen. Most people, myself included, can't generate the speed necessary. Usually over compensating by jamming the tip into the cloth. If you ban jump cues, you might as well ban jumping altogether.

Wish in one hand...shit in the other. See which one fills up first. Jump cues are here to stay and I don't see them going anywhere for the foreseeable future. But we can have tournaments with them, and tournaments without them. I'm good with that.
 
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I get it. I respect your opinion. But there is something you haven't taken into account. Outside of the pros (Earl comes to mind) or some good shortstops, jumping with a full cue isn't going to happen. What's more likely to happen is the cloth will be damaged by lower skilled players attempting it. I've seen it happen. Most people, myself included, can't generate the speed necessary. Usually over compensating by jamming the tip into the cloth. If you ban jump cues, you might as well ban jumping altogether.

Wish in one hand...shit in the other. See which one fills up first. Jump cues are here to stay and I don't see them going anywhere for the foreseeable future. But we can have tournaments with them, and tournaments without them. I'm good with that.

I think with a good break cue it can be setup for jumping well enough that even a medium level player can do it, it's just going to be harder or impossible to jump vary close to a ball using that. For example, the BK Rush CF shaft break cue, it jumps really well as a full cue, and is full length and weight.

I have no issues with someone using a break cue to jump, since I know that the LD shafts are really bad at jumping. I am not so set in my views that I can't make allowances for that. Also, the White Diamond tip on a standard cue will jump decently enough to use in situations, but again it won't make the crazy jumps we see now.

I just know what I see as a skilled game and skilled shots being made a mockery of with the jump cue and I don't like that.

Whoever does the standard world rules, and I guess Matchroom not just needs to set a minimum length and weight that is reasonable enough to allow for equipment preference but not so much that it makes some shots possible only due to the equipment used. Not likely to happen, but that does not mean that the views of what a jump cue should be all positive. It's like a law that everyone hates but it's still there, we need to live with it but nothing stops us from complaining LOL. And hey, look at things like weed, it was illegal for a long time, and enough people thought it was OK to use under controlled conditions that it's now almost as normal as alcohol. Maybe someday someone in charge will look at jump cues and say "you know they are a silly thing, lets restrict them".
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think with a good break cue it can be setup for jumping well enough that even a medium level player can do it, it's just going to be harder or impossible to jump vary close to a ball using that. For example, the BK Rush CF shaft break cue, it jumps really well as a full cue, and is full length and weight.

I have no issues with someone using a break cue to jump, since I know that the LD shafts are really bad at jumping. I am not so set in my views that I can't make allowances for that. Also, the White Diamond tip on a standard cue will jump decently enough to use in situations, but again it won't make the crazy jumps we see now.

I just know what I see as a skilled game and skilled shots being made a mockery of with the jump cue and I don't like that.

Whoever does the standard world rules, and I guess Matchroom not just needs to set a minimum length and weight that is reasonable enough to allow for equipment preference but not so much that it makes some shots possible only due to the equipment used. Not likely to happen, but that does not mean that the views of what a jump cue should be all positive. It's like a law that everyone hates but it's still there, we need to live with it but nothing stops us from complaining LOL. And hey, look at things like weed, it was illegal for a long time, and enough people thought it was OK to use under controlled conditions that it's now almost as normal as alcohol. Maybe someday someone in charge will look at jump cues and say "you know they are a silly thing, lets restrict them".
What gets me is the lower skilled players that now have jump cues, and even when it’s not a shot that an excellent jump shooting high level player would choose to jump over a kick, these players will pull out their jump cue just because they have one. They never learn how to play kick shots and kick safeties, even though when they play a highly skilled player in a handicapped tournament match, that is what the skilled player chooses over the jump shot.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I get it. I respect your opinion. But there is something you haven't taken into account. Outside of the pros (Earl comes to mind) or some good shortstops, jumping with a full cue isn't going to happen. What's more likely to happen is the cloth will be damaged by lower skilled players attempting it. I've seen it happen. Most people, myself included, can't generate the speed necessary. Usually over compensating by jamming the tip into the cloth. If you ban jump cues, you might as well ban jumping altogether.

Wish in one hand...shit in the other. See which one fills up first. Jump cues are here to stay and I don't see them going anywhere for the foreseeable future. But we can have tournaments with them, and tournaments without them. I'm good with that.


In the pre jump cue days most didn't even attempt to jump over whole balls. Jumping was to get over a small piece of a ball. Earl and a few, very few, more were the only whole ball jumpers. That was the reason Earl hated jump cues, they made lesser mortals his equal jumping.

While I don't know how they are made, there is a masse cue too. A few trick shot artists carry them. We are always in danger of becoming like the golfers. I break off the wall just to avoid owning and toting one more cue.

Hu
 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
I've heard a theory that suggest exactly this. A special cue for a certain shot. Just the way trick shot artists have it. But I prefer good old times of the beginning of XX century, hands down. Back then a player was operating with a single stick only (and the game was played as 2D).
The main reason I use a different break cue is for durability. Since I practice way more than I break, it's kind of silly, The tip on my break cue (just a standard playing cue) usually looks better than the one on my playing cue. I think some of the LD shafts may be a little more delicate than I'd want to pound breaks with but I use a CF shaft. It just makes me feel important to have a breaker.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All I'm saying is the jump cue isn't the magic wand everyone makes it out to be. Many times that "good hit" is a sell out and a loss.

I've never seen a pro, on tape or otherwise say they don't like to use jump cues. If there is, point me to them.

As for jumping full cue, do you believe a person using a hard tip has an advantage over someone using a soft tip? The discussion will end up being we should ban hard tips... or jumping altogether.

Ran across a very recent one, Alex P talking about the new breaking rules and "take the jump cue off", both Reed and Kim agreed they don't like it. So there is three in one LOL


There are over a dozen other instances I have heard pros talk about not liking the jump cue, I'm sure most of us have heard Jeremy Jones and Mark Wilson talk about it during their commentary, as well as Earl of course. Just happened to run across this new video to actually link to it.
 

dendweller

Well-known member
The anti-jump cue crowd have jumped the shark if you ask me. I suppose you could force players to have longer jump cues, but what's the point if they're still going to be jumping anyway eventually?

Jumping the ball in today's game is more important than ever, as the top safety and kicking games continue to move towards perfection. Knowing the incoming player can jump the ball, demands safety play be more precise. That's not a bad thing, even with dreaded jump cue.
I think the reason for people not liking the jump cue is that although it takes some practice to get at, it's not near the practice it takes to know the rails well enough to make the same kicks. It's a different game. Saw a match in Poland today, guy played a perfect safe, broke out some balls that needed breaking and safed the incoming player. The incoming guy jumps over the ball, hits the 1, shits in the 3 and runs out. Lovely.
 

dendweller

Well-known member
Yeah, the jump cues make jumping too easy. I can barely clear a dime with a full cue and can easily jump over a ball with a jump cue. I mainly don't like needing another cue. What's next? A draw cue and another cue for spin shots? Would the game be improved if everyone needs to bring 5 cues?
I'm still waiting to see a one cue tournament. guess that's not going to happen with the money the cue companies are pulling in on break and jump cues.
 

Justaneng

Registered
Buffalos’s in New Orleans has 4 1/4 on all their 9’ tables, even the 10’er.
The other half of the room is normal cut 7’ Diamonds though. Although I’m not sure who’s idea it was to put tan cloth on those with everyone carrying around blue chalk.
 

chandler1968

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I played for the first time since 2003 and thought all the tables i played on, about 10 with practicing, played great. The pockets were very fair and not overly tight. I like the venue and enjoyed the tournament. Jay
 
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