4.5 vs.4.75 inches pockets

[robertod]

I have not read a discussion on this subject, so here is my question. What pocket size is better suited for improving your skills and for pure enjoyment of the game? My skill level is about 4-5 in APA. I purchased a Diamond Pro with 4.5 pro cut pockets and am really enjoying the table . I do get frustrated when some of my shots rattle in the pockets, knowing that on another table (with 4.75 inch pockets) that shot would have gone in. Although I realize I am being forced to be more accurate with my shot execution, I do get frustrated by losing momentum and flow. Should a player of my skill level be playing on larger pockets?

 

[center pocket]

Dont get frustrated. I am getting the same table installed at my house this Saturday!
I am taking a guess here but the shots that rattle the most are the ones shot down the rail, right? When shooting into the corner pockets from down the rail at high speed you have to be extra accurate. A faster struck shot will have a much smaller margin of error from stroke error and from the facings in the pocket. One thing I have learned to solve this problem is to learn more CB position routes. When the cut angle on the ball down the rail is less then 15 degrees, try high inside english and send the cue ball to the end rail then back up table. If the cut angle is over 15 degrees, Try low outside english sending the cue ball back towards you and to the other side rail at the same time. By using the right route you wont have to shoot the Object ball down the rail any faster then medium speed, eliminating the rattle of death!

 

[Big C]

Tough playing tables demand a tight game. Dig deeper and your game will improve. That being said, slop tables are the great equalizer. Your opponent doesn't need to be as good as you are to win.

 

[greyghost]

remember always aim for center pocket....can't cheat it as much on a diamond

I have not read a discussion on this subject, so here is my question. What pocket size is better suited for improving your skills and for pure enjoyment of the game? My skill level is about 4-5 in APA. I purchased a Diamond Pro with 4.5 pro cut pockets and am really enjoying the table . I do get frustrated when some of my shots rattle in the pockets, knowing that on another table (with 4.75 inch pockets) that shot would have gone in. Although I realize I am being forced to be more accurate with my shot execution, I do get frustrated by losing momentum and flow. Should a player of my skill level be playing on larger pockets?

don't get frustrated, remember that your also dealing with a much deeper shelf on the diamond, so you are going to see more misses when compared to other tables. If your practicing the ghost or something, and you catch one of those last min rattles that you feel should have dropped, then just drop the ball and continue the run....don't worry so much about it, just focus on having fun and wanting to play. Eventually the misses will decrease, just keep practicing hitting center pocket.

Honestly if it were any smaller I would say yes, because especially for a beginner a larger pocket helps promote a more professional style of play, it helps you to move the rock around much better...as you can cheat the pocket more. On a
4 1/4" pocket you can't cheat nearly as much, and you kinda have to graduate from class before you have the skills to do that on the smaller pockets. All in all 4.5" is a pretty good place to be, not severely difficult, nor is it a big bucket...I say stick with it and you will be very happy.

it will come with time,
Grey Ghost

 

[CharlieHustle]

Tight Pockets

This is how I see it. Obviously you are disturbed by the tight pockets because it seems to be breaking up your rhythm and flow. If you weren't bothered you wouldn't be posting this question. All 4.5 inch pockets were not created equal. Diamond 4.5 inch pockets are tougher than Brunswick and other major pool tables. I'd say Diamond 4-1/2" pockets are more like Brunswick 4-3/8" mainly because of the deep shelf of the Diamond. Players a couple levels up from you and probably every one answering this post will be frequently rattling balls in those pockets.

So, in my mind it all boils down to this: What are your favorite games? I think your enjoyment level would increase with larger pockets if you like one pocket, bank, and straight pool. Banks are just a lot more difficult than straight-ins. Straight pool is a flow game. If you are learning the game, it’s hard to get this flow when your runs are automatically cut short due to the tighter the pockets.

If your games are 9 ball and 8 ball, I'd stick with the pockets you have and use the challenge of tighter pockets to improve your accuracy and consistency.

Bottom line is confidence is very important in pool. That’s why you should play lessor players as well a better players. It’s hard to develop flow and confidence if you feel intimidated every couple of shots or so, and balls are constantly rattling. If you have had this table more than a few months and still feel ill at ease at making shots that you would feel good about making on an easier table, I'd consider going to 4-3/4”. That’s my favorite size because it’s tight but not too tight. You can still develop flow but still have confidence when you play on harder tables. I think it’s also a good size if you play all the games.

 

[onepocketron]

I am biased on this topic because I love tight pockets. With that said, I understand your are saying too. I used to have a home table with very tight pockets (I had them shimmed tight when they installed the table).
Once I finally got used to them, it never entered my mind they were smaller. A lot of it had to do with me "knowing these pockets are tight" when I first got the table that was blowing my mind. Most of the problems I had was when the object ball was close to the rail, or I had to hit the ball harder than my mormal stroke (when you have to hit the ball harder that "normal" any flaws in your stroke will be multiplied).

If there is a particular shot you are having problems with, shoot it every day for 5 or 10 minutes (not too long or you will get bored and lose focus). Go through your routine, and concentrate as if the shot was for $100 every time.Soon you will "own" that shot.
I am envious as I wish I still had my home table....tight pockets and all

 

[Cameron Smith]

I'm a believer in the philosophy that you practice on what you play on. But there is more to the difficulty of pockets than the size of them. However as long as you keep the cloth clean and dry, 4.5 should be fine. But if you let it get dirty and wet (humidity), those pockets will get uber tough.

 

[kevpull]

Tight is Right

Keep the tight pockets. Your stroke and game will become more precise as you continue to play.

 

[deanoc]

i would sell the table and get some bigger pockets on a gold crown,I quit playing when they put these type tables in Diamonds in Dallas,sure I heard all the standard talk,the pool room lasted 6 months,they put the tables in another pool room ,another 6 months.

Unless you are a player of Efrens speed or Archer,these tables will kill your game.
I for one would rather not play than put up with these tricked up pockets.

Funny pockets,funny angles,different size,short banks,why reinvent the wheel?

What would golfers do if someone suggested a smaller cup,?

 

[poolplayer2093]

I have not read a discussion on this subject, so here is my question. What pocket size is better suited for improving your skills and for pure enjoyment of the game? My skill level is about 4-5 in APA. I purchased a Diamond Pro with 4.5 pro cut pockets and am really enjoying the table . I do get frustrated when some of my shots rattle in the pockets, knowing that on another table (with 4.75 inch pockets) that shot would have gone in. Although I realize I am being forced to be more accurate with my shot execution, I do get frustrated by losing momentum and flow. Should a player of my skill level be playing on larger pockets?

What kind of beginner BS is that!!!??????

"On another table (with 4.75" pockets) that shot would have gone in"

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds/is right? if anything you should be looking at shots you make on tables with 4.75" pockets that rattle and then fall and think "that wasn't supposed to go"

why not just find yourself a table with 5" pockets so you can make even more shots without really having to play better.

 

[poolplayer2093]

i would sell the table and get some bigger pockets on a gold crown,I quit playing when they put these type tables in Diamonds in Dallas,sure I heard all the standard talk,the pool room lasted 6 months,they put the tables in another pool room ,another 6 months.

Unless you are a player of Efrens speed or Archer,these tables will kill your game.
I for one would rather not play than put up with these tricked up pockets.

Funny pockets,funny angles,different size,short banks,why reinvent the wheel?

What would golfers do if someone suggested a smaller cup,?

Yeah, right! tighter pockets won't kill your game (unless you don't have much of a game). you can still get out. the only difference is you'll have to shoot straighter to do it. You don't need to play like Efren or archer to play on tight equipment.

 

[Ratta]

Hussa,

pockets which are hard to play cuz of their size are extremly good for training. The most important thing is, that they have the correct angles- a guy i know has a dynamic ll table with extremly small pockets (think a bit less than 4,5). But if u play a frozen-rail-ball perfectly it makes no matter how hard u hit it, it always go down! In my opinion a hard tables with small pockets is super for training- but they have to have the correct angles!

lg
Ingo

 

[robertod]

What kind of beginner BS is that!!!??????

"
Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds/is right? if anything you should be looking at shots you make on tables with 4.75" pockets that rattle and then fall and think "that wasn't supposed to go"

why not just find yourself a table with 5" pockets so you can make even more shots without really having to play better.

Of course I'm not looking to make the shots as easy as possible. I would not have spent north of 6K for a 9ft. table with 4.5 pockets. My point was to pose the question of when should some one challenge themselves with a more difficult table. I would never recommend a beginner golfer to play a US Open course from the back tees. It would not help his game or confidence. Same question here, does a more difficult table hinder or help a player's development?

 

[deanoc]

Luther Lassiter had loose pockets on his home table and defended the practice by saing he wanted to practice running out and letting his stroke out.The last thing you want od do is shut that stroke down.

This is just one other proponent of the looser pocket idea.And he was the best player of his generation,and quite a 9 ball player for years afterward.

If you don't like the tight pockets,get a table that you do like,I personally don't play good enough to play on the tight pockets.Ronnie Allen voiced similar thoughts on the tight diamond tables inDallas"we are here to play one pocket not snooker"

 

[Bigkahuna]

Tightness

Stick with the plan........ You bought a table knowing the pockets were tough. My table was 4.5" and now is 4.25" and I can tell you that tight pockets are good for your game.

Now, I played at your level at one time and I will tell you this is a game where,,, you do not know,,, how much you do NOT know. Chances are that you have some errors in your stroke, some lack of knowledge and probably some misunderstandings in physics. I know that seems like an insult but it is not. You have these errors not knowing you have them. If you are a winner then it would seem that you do not need to make improvements. However, unless you are winning your state championships in a non handicapped event you probably could use some improvement. I myself have errors in my stroke and I play at a higher level than you. I have identified those errors and right now it is constant attention to correct these errors, (I am always working on my game). On 4.25" pockets those errors are magnified. However, when I am hitting well I can let my stroke out and even cheat the pocket, (well some). Just stay the course you will get there and you will start to see improvements.

BTW if you ever need to get rid of that table I will help you move into my house!:grin:

 

[CharlieHustle]

Tight pockets

I agree with deanoc:

"Luther Lassiter had loose pockets on his home table and defended the practice by saying he wanted to practice running out and letting his stroke out.The last thing you want to do is shut that stroke down.

This is just one other proponent of the looser pocket idea.And he was the best player of his generation,and quite a 9 ball player for years afterward.

If you don't like the tight pockets,get a table that you do like,I personally don't play good enough to play on the tight pockets.Ronnie Allen voiced similar thoughts on the tight diamond tables in Dallas"we are here to play one pocket not snooker"

I still say if your game is 9-ball or 8-ball stick to the tight pockets. But if you want to play 14.1, bank, or one pocket, and you can't run 2 racks in straight pool after trying for a year, open them up. Your enjoyment and confidence will increase. I'm still waiting to see anyone run two racks on my table with tight pockets and I've had a few guys over that have run over a hundred in tournaments on more generous pockets. They consider my table a challenge, but they really don't enjoy playing on it, so I have to twist their arms to get them to come over. They think I have the house advantage because I'm more used to the pockets.

So have more fun and open them up. The point is you can just as well improve your accuracy by being aware of exactly where the object ball is falling in the pocket. Don't be satisfied with thinking "Oh, well I made the shot, it fell in." Notice if it made the exact center, if not, how far and in what direction it was off, or if you are cheating the pocket, notice how successful you were, and again notice exactly how it corresponded to where you were aiming. Then you can have the best of both worlds, accuracy with rhythm and flow.

All the guys that I know who run over 50 or 100 have larger pockets on their home table. One of the best players in history, Luther Lassiter had large pockets on his home table. Other great players then and now also have larger pockets as well. (At least larger than 4.5" like mine.) A lot of the lessor players I know insist on playing on tight pockets. So you figure it out.

 

[berlowmj]

varying workouts

I have not read a discussion on this subject, so here is my question. What pocket size is better suited for improving your skills and for pure enjoyment of the game? My skill level is about 4-5 in APA. I purchased a Diamond Pro with 4.5 pro cut pockets and am really enjoying the table . I do get frustrated when some of my shots rattle in the pockets, knowing that on another table (with 4.75 inch pockets) that shot would have gone in. Although I realize I am being forced to be more accurate with my shot execution, I do get frustrated by losing momentum and flow. Should a player of my skill level be playing on larger pockets?

My basement will only accommodate an 8' table & it happens to have 4.75" pockets. However, when I go to the city I go to the pool hall & workout on the tightest 9 footers & occasionally on a snooker table.

Are there inserts which can be used to vary pocket size?