45 ball run video

[LightsOut]

Here's a video - I'd welcome any and all feedback, esp. on the few choices I had after the third breakshot. I just plain missed which is the most frustrating part of it ending.

http://youtu.be/Ym5ys2g_Iu0

I've spent some time of late with local instructor Chicago Dave (Gorgas) which has been invaluable in my bpi avg increasing substantially. Funniest thing is what has made the single biggest change in me mentally has been a simple stop shot drill; I would have never believed what a difference this would make (for me), so glad I started doing it! Thanks Dave (even though he's not on here as he doesn't even own a computer)...

 

[Dan White]

Clearly I have a lot of time on my hands this morning, which is why my name is on every post in this forum. But, I do have to run soon. I watched the first rack of your video. I love your room and your stroke looks pretty good. Two comments:

1. I HATE, HATE, HATE using that opening break to start a run. When are you ever going to have that break shot in reality? Almost never. So, if the goal is to improve your game why not start with a standard side of the pack 14.1 break shot? If you use the other break shot just to get a better spread of balls, then why not just smash into the stack to open them all up? It just isn't realistic. The pro's do it because they are trying for real cash in a competition. That's different. Let's say you set up that initial break shot 10 times a day 5 days a week. That's well over 200 times a month that you could be practicing the most important shot in 14.1 -- the break shot!

2. I think you made a mistake at around 3:45 in the video with 5 balls on the table. That 6-3-8 was a perfect ending pattern. I think you should have hit the 15 harder for 1 rail position on the 11 in the side (a pretty large position zone). You might also have gone 2 rails around the 8 for a better angle into the 11, but I can't really tell which would be easier. From the 11 just drift down for the 6 in the corner for a pretty easy shot on the 3 in the side. The only semi challenging shot is the 15 to the 11 and the rest is cake. With your route you got lucky you didn't scratch and then a little luck to get perfect draw on the 11 for the break ball.

 

[sparkle84]

Funniest thing is what has made the single biggest change in me mentally has been a simple stop shot drill

Not surprising. Not sure how it's helped you mentally but it should definitely help your position play. The stop shot is the basis for all position play. If one can't stop the CB from all distances and at varying speeds they'll constantly struggle with position. Saw you've only been playing 4 yrs. and looks like you've made good progress. If you want to continue improving, particularly in 14.1, there's a few areas you might want to focus on.
The aforementioned position play is one, especially with regards to finesse around the rack area. Soft draw, sliding the CB sideways a couple inches, hitting a cluster in an exact spot are key to manipulating the balls into advantageous positions.
Shot selection and angle selection is another area that will make a big difference in your game. You have way too much CB movement and traveling across position zones and it's making things much harder than they need to be and often leaving you with harder +/or subpar breakshots. (your run stopped by missing the 4 ball but I'd submit that the less than ideal breakshot on the 15 was a contributing factor by not leaving you a whole lot to work with)
Even still, you had a few options but they required obtaining very precise angles. If the 11 passed the 8 the best would have been getting straight on the 4 and breaking them with the 11. (perhaps that was your plan?) If not you had 3 other options.
1) When shooting the 1, tried to get straight on the 12 in the upper corner, stop, and play the 9 coming off the foot rail up into the balls with speed. (no insurance so as much speed as possible without missing the ball is essential.
2) From where you were on the 9 it looked like you could have drawn up into the rack. If you could miss the 11 and go into the 6 it would have loosened up a few balls and the 4 +/or the 11 or the striped ball next to the 7 in the opposite side would have offered a decent amount of insurance. Speed would be very important here for generating the correct angle from the 9 to the 6.
3) When shooting the 1 get straight on the 9. Stop and play the 11 in the upper left corner with good follow. Loosens a few balls and the 4 is excellent insurance.
These were all viable options. I would have chosen #1 because even if I didn't get straight on the 12 options 2+3 would have still been there.

I watched a few of your videos and saw a recurring theme most of the time.
Poor shot and angle selection is holding you back. It's forcing you to shoot harder shots, play across position zones and be left with no insurance balls much of the time, all of which are run killers. Correcting these things will make a big difference.
How to do it? It starts with the thought process when evaluating the table. Setting goals and having a clear purpose for every ball you shoot is essential. Much of this simply requires more time and experience but then again I've seen hundreds of guys at about your level that never improved from there.
One thing you might do is study your own videos and see how you might have done something different with regards to what I mentioned above about insurance balls, etc. The one where you run 14, miss then run 36 offers a good example of the thought process required in straight pool. I'm starting at the beginning of the 36 ball run. Most would agree that it's a fairly easy rack but there are a few problems and the initial evaluation should be geared towards addressing them quickly and in a natural, efficient manner.
I paused the video as you were about to shoot the 11 ball after the break shot. I don't know what you did after that. I'll just give you my thoughts on what I think should be done in this situation.
The break shot for the next rack is not in the equation at this point. The problem areas are the 5,7,13 +15. With the exception of the 6 those balls have no pocket or only one pocket. I need to change that right away and do it in a way that allows me to shoot easy shots with natural position which carry a very high degree of success.
I'm going to shoot the 11,1 + 6. From the 6 I'd like to position the CB between the 5 + 13 with my goal being to get fairly straight in on both balls + eliminate them next. If position allows it I'd like to go 13 then 5. Reason being is because a stop shot on the 5 puts me in perfect line on the 12 so I can go and get rid of the 15 and possibly the 7 also.
At this point all problems are gone and I'm left with all the balls in the middle of the table with multiple break shots and unlimited options. This was a pretty easy rack and many people would have done it differently but the goal should be the same. Eliminate problems quickly and efficiently while maintaining insurance in case of making slight position errors along the way.
Many racks will be much harder but the thought process should remain the same regardless. If doing so means shooting a harder shot or more intricate position then IMO that's the way to go. Choosing to shoot a hard shot earlier instead of waiting until you're forced into it is usually the best option.
As far as intricate precise position goes, the brainwash drill is excellent in that regard.
Hope this helps a little.

 

[LightsOut]

Two comments:

1. I HATE, HATE, HATE using that opening break to start a run.

2. I think you made a mistake at around 3:45 in the video with 5 balls on the table. That 6-3-8 was a perfect ending pattern.

Thanks for the thoughts and comments Dan, I appreciate you taking the time to write some feedback.

1. I understand your disdain for this break shot as atypical in game situations. As strange as it may seem it is one of many I use when practicing straight pool. My standard practice ones are: head spot, down the short rail behind the rack, two rails into the rack from side pocket, down the long rail, standard side pocket and the reverse of the one you hate, going two rails with inside english. I mainly practice these so if they do come up in a game I will have so practice history with them. But I do understand your point too.

Thanks again!

 

[LightsOut]

Not surprising. Not sure how it's helped you mentally but it should definitely help your position play.

It has helped me very much mentally in trying to get to 100 or more stop shots with out missing as this practice requires a repetitive pre-shot routine, finding the exact contact point and focus. My thinking being if you can make 100 stop shots in a row, how are you ever going to run 100 or more in a game with so much unpredictability as straight pool? So far I got to 149, planning on stopping at 150 and there you go, I let up on the last ball and bobbled it. Every shot requires that focus, that's why I do this rather boring drill.

(your run stopped by missing the 4 ball but I'd submit that the less than ideal breakshot on the 15 was a contributing factor by not leaving you a whole lot to work with)

Agreed. I really screwed up the end of rack 3 avoiding staying above the 13 and playing it into the opposite corner and going two rails around the break ball. This is a shot I don't like for some reason. I have since been practicing that shot every day.

2) From where you were on the 9 it looked like you could have drawn up into the rack. If you could miss the 11 and go into the 6 it would have loosened up a few balls and the 4 +/or the 11 or the striped ball next to the 7 in the opposite side would have offered a decent amount of insurance. Speed would be very important here for generating the correct angle from the 9 to the 6.

I really thought about doing this but I got chicken and thought I may get stuck in the rack. I was actually playing to get a thinner cut on the 4 and have more pace going into the balls. Since I got so far away I tried to force too much and missed by a mile.

I paused the video as you were about to shoot the 11 ball after the break shot. I don't know what you did after that. I'll just give you my thoughts on what I think should be done in this situation.
The break shot for the next rack is not in the equation at this point. The problem areas are the 5,7,13 +15. With the exception of the 6 those balls have no pocket or only one pocket. I need to change that right away and do it in a way that allows me to shoot easy shots with natural position which carry a very high degree of success.
I'm going to shoot the 11,1 + 6. From the 6 I'd like to position the CB between the 5 + 13 with my goal being to get fairly straight in on both balls + eliminate them next. If position allows it I'd like to go 13 then 5. Reason being is because a stop shot on the 5 puts me in perfect line on the 12 so I can go and get rid of the 15 and possibly the 7 also.

I played almost the exact pattern you mentioned with a few major shortcoming differences. I didn't pay enough attention to get straight on the five so it got left until way later. I made it way harder with the routes I took and ended up using the 7 as a key ball but from a really tough position. Luck and shot making got me what I would call average position on the break ball.

Hope this helps a little.

It helps a whole bunch. Thanks so much for taking the time to write out such a detailed plan/thought process, I appreciate it!

 

[Vahmurka]

HATE, HATE, HATE using that opening break to start a run. When are you ever going to have that break shot in reality? Almost never.

I'm on slow connection now so I watched only the opening break, as I guessed it might be what I think of. And yes it was that very shot.
I recently start my practice runs with similar type too (though my choice is not limited to this one only). Long ago I watched a local pro (world class) who was breaking this way, and I asked him whether he uses this shot in play. And he replied, yes, pretty often.

I think it's good to be familiar with this shot and keep in mind it can be a good break. This year I already used it in my play (though I try to stick to "traditional" side- and behind-the rack break balls). The only difference between my shot is the break ball should be more to the central axis of the table, so that the cue ball hits one of the two head balls square.

 

[Dan White]

I'm on slow connection now so I watched only the opening break, as I guessed it might be what I think of. And yes it was that very shot.
I recently start my practice runs with similar type too (though my choice is not limited to this one only). Long ago I watched a local pro (world class) who was breaking this way, and I asked him whether he uses this shot in play. And he replied, yes, pretty often.

I think it's good to be familiar with this shot and keep in mind it can be a good break. This year I already used it in my play (though I try to stick to "traditional" side- and behind-the rack break balls). The only difference between my shot is the break ball should be more to the central axis of the table, so that the cue ball hits one of the two head balls square.

All good points, but keep it in perspective. The OP said he doesn't only break with that shot, so that is good. However, a relative beginner at 14.1 does not need to be breaking practice rounds with that particular break shot. The chances of a newer player getting this break shot 1 out of 100 racks doesn't justify using it for starting practice runs. The fact that he does not use this opening break exclusively makes it less of an issue.

 

[michael4]

how many balls ahead are you planning?

 

[LightsOut]

That's a great question. I think this number may be inconsistent, especially when I start playing faster...I think the # is 2 in the beginning/middle of the rack and I always try and stop with 5 balls left and make a plan backwards.

I think I'm occasionally guilty of playing 1 ball ahead instead of 2. This is probably a major problem. I've been told I need to play more position on multiple balls instead of one specific ball.

There's a lot to think about in a game that needs right brain dominance!

 

[sparkle84]

I've been told I need to play more position on multiple balls instead of one specific ball.

IMO this is wrong. You should always try to play precise position on one specific ball. But, it should be done in a way that you have insurance. In situations where you're almost 100% sure you will execute said position, insurance is unnecessary. On the other hand, when playing position where if you roll an inch too far you have no shot then insurance is critical. If there is none then you have to go a different way when possible.
One thing I notice about beginners in 14.1 is that they're even more reluctant to attempt hard position than they are to shoot a hard shot. One thing I've told others with some success is that if the rack is opened up well and they have multiple shots and choices then try the following. Imagine you have CB in hand. If so, where would you put it? Some people need some guidance as to where would be best but quite often most people do pretty well at recognizing the spot that would be most advantageous.
Now that we've got the spot, what's the best way to get there. The best way is usually the quickest way while maintaining insurance. Many times that place can be reached in 1 or maybe 2 shots but they may require taking a position route that while it's well within their capabilities might not be within their comfort zone. Well, this is practice, it's time to start expanding the comfort zone. Failure to expand the comfort zone will stifle progress. The opposite will accelerate it. Going outside the box will not only increase shot and position skills, it will stimulate imagination, which is extremely important.
Let's say a player recognized that spot to get to but took 5 balls to get there instead of 2. He just wasted 3 balls that may be needed later. Unlike other games, in 14.1, balls are similar to poker chips. the more you have the better off you are. Lots of times it's not which balls you shot or in which order, but which balls you leave.One thing people do is shoot those 3 extra balls and 1 or 2 of them would have been valuable in ensuring they got good on the key ball. Or better yet, the ball before the key ball, which IMO is the most important ball in a rack of 14.1.
You mentioned when you have 5 or so balls left you try to work backwards. The same thing is necessary at the beginning and middle also. The brainwash drill is very beneficial in developing the ability to recognize the connections between balls, even when they're not obvious.
It may seem I'm saying this is simple. Far from it. Keep at it, you'll get there.

 

[michael4]

You should always try to play precise position on one specific ball. But, it should be done in a way that you have insurance. In situations where you're almost 100% sure you will execute said position, insurance is unnecessary. On the other hand, when playing position where if you roll an inch too far you have no shot then insurance is critical.

I took the OP to mean he should plan more than one ball ahead, but your post is very enlightening for me!

 

[SpiderWebComm]

IMO this is wrong. You should always try to play precise position on one specific ball. But, it should be done in a way that you have insurance. In situations where you're almost 100% sure you will execute said position, insurance is unnecessary. On the other hand, when playing position where if you roll an inch too far you have no shot then insurance is critical. If there is none then you have to go a different way when possible.
One thing I notice about beginners in 14.1 is that they're even more reluctant to attempt hard position than they are to shoot a hard shot. One thing I've told others with some success is that if the rack is opened up well and they have multiple shots and choices then try the following. Imagine you have CB in hand. If so, where would you put it? Some people need some guidance as to where would be best but quite often most people do pretty well at recognizing the spot that would be most advantageous.
Now that we've got the spot, what's the best way to get there. The best way is usually the quickest way while maintaining insurance. Many times that place can be reached in 1 or maybe 2 shots but they may require taking a position route that while it's well within their capabilities might not be within their comfort zone. Well, this is practice, it's time to start expanding the comfort zone. Failure to expand the comfort zone will stifle progress. The opposite will accelerate it. Going outside the box will not only increase shot and position skills, it will stimulate imagination, which is extremely important.
Let's say a player recognized that spot to get to but took 5 balls to get there instead of 2. He just wasted 3 balls that may be needed later. Unlike other games, in 14.1, balls are similar to poker chips. the more you have the better off you are. Lots of times it's not which balls you shot or in which order, but which balls you leave.One thing people do is shoot those 3 extra balls and 1 or 2 of them would have been valuable in ensuring they got good on the key ball. Or better yet, the ball before the key ball, which IMO is the most important ball in a rack of 14.1.
You mentioned when you have 5 or so balls left you try to work backwards. The same thing is necessary at the beginning and middle also. The brainwash drill is very beneficial in developing the ability to recognize the connections between balls, even when they're not obvious.
It may seem I'm saying this is simple. Far from it. Keep at it, you'll get there.

Your post hit home with me so I thought I'd reply. I've been a 14.1 player most of my pool playing life, since 9 ball usually bored me to death and 8 ball wasn't played often in pool rooms. Once most players hit that juncture (IF they do), they usually find other games-- usually 14.1 or one pocket --- sometimes banks.

For me, it was 14.1. From the time I started the game until now, my game has matured quite a bit. Up until maybe 2 years ago, I played 14.1 with the same logic as 9-ball: playing position on a single ball and often trying to plan two or three balls ahead and even more if the pattern was clear. Obviously, looking for insurance balls as I went.

Around 2 or so years ago, I hooked up with Mike Sigel for a 14.1 lesson-- which was quite educational. During this lesson, he states that he doesn't play position on one ball at a time -- he plays position "to a point on the table" that can have a shot solution to as many balls as possible. His reasoning was that most runs end due to "brain lock" --- basically seeing a pattern and trying to run out the pattern as you see it, regardless of where your CB ends up (think 9-ball). He tries to look at patterns not from ball to ball to ball---- but from "spot to spot to spot."

He continued to say that the shooter must re-evaluate the layout and plan after every single shot, no matter how simple the pattern might seem. Having the CB roll long, short or wide just a hair can greatly affect your decision moving forward. After questioning him on this, he elaborated by saying if he doesn't play that way, his runs are cut short often.

I've found that playing to "points of options" versus playing position on a specific ball keeps me re-assessing and not having tunnel vision. It also helps me play by %s.

Just thought I'd share that as it's a different way of thinking.
Dave

 

[Dan White]

He [Sigel] continued to say that the shooter must re-evaluate the layout and plan after every single shot, no matter how simple the pattern might seem.

I don't recall what Rempe says about playing position to a spot rather than a ball, but he definitely said you have to reevaluate your options after every shot. I have to think on simpler patterns this is less necessary, but the overall concept is probably important.

 

[sparkle84]

Hope noone thinks I'm advocating choosing a pattern of balls to shoot in a certain order and then sticking to it no matter what. The rack has to be reevaluated after every shot. That's the most interesting and challenging thing about 14.1.
Nevertheless, I'll stick with my statement that you should be trying to get precise position on a specific ball. Of course that means going to a particular point on the table, but just going to a point because it offers multiple shots doesn't necessarily translate into accomplishing what is necessary to get to a good breakshot. Solving problems ASAP, clearing balls interfering with other balls, clearing position lanes, manufacturing breakshots and key balls most often require getting specific angles on specific balls.
Of course, knowing which ball and what angle is a fairly large problem for beginning and intermediate players. Their shot and position selections tend to end up backing them into a corner at some point. The balls are controlling them instead of them controlling the balls. In most cases it leads to having to make very hard shots +/or position to end up with a subpar breakshot or none at all. That's kind of where Jason's at right now. Experience is a huge factor but the learning curve can be accelerated by some of the things I mentioned in the last post. Imagining the ball in hand thing will start to lead towards better shot selection. The brainwash drill is the best drill for playing better 14.1. Not only does it develop fine CB control, it also is a huge help in shot selection.
I've watched the rest of that rack in the 14/36 video and I think you realize how damaging not removing the 5 became later in the rack. I understand you couldn't shoot the 5 and stop because it would have left you on the rail and shooting the 12 from there was too difficult. That was the time to stop and reevaluate without losing sight of the goal which was to remove the 15 and 7 if possible. But the 15 needed to be gone for sure. There were ways to shoot the 5 and one shot later get to the 15. It would have made things much easier later. You ending up having to play hard position on the 7 which was not a good key ball. Reason being is there wasn't any ball left on the table which led naturally to the 7 without going across the position zone or 3 rails.
Mike Sigel is one of the greatest 14.1 players who ever lived. So if he said something about the game he must of had a good reason. But if you watch his videos it's pretty easy to see that he's almost always trying to get a certain angle on a specific ball. Often multiple times in the same rack. Sometimes he'll get to a ball and be a half inch off from where he needs to be so he'll shoot something else. But from that point on his goal (if possible) is to get back to that ball with the exact right angle.
There's not a lot Sigel' videos anymore, a lot have been taken down. Here's a link to one if I'm doing it right. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoU6nEAhrqY
It's one where he takes a young Ortmann to school, particularly in the area of safety play. Mike didn't really have his best stuff in the 1st half but got going later on. The times when he's at the table are 10:00/23:25/36:10 and from 52:35 runs out.
I could go thru and pick out all the instances when he's getting specific angles on specific balls to accomplish specific things but it would be very difficult due to relatively poor quality video. You can't really tell which ball is which.
I picked this one but but watch any of his games and you'll see he plays the same way, which is just about perfect 14.1 from a decision making standpoint. And all others for that matter.
Attended the World 14.1 tournament wish he'd been there. Anyone who loves 14.1 should really try to make it next year if at all possible.

 

[LightsOut]

Thanks so much for everyone who has responded to this thread. I am happy with all the comments and information and glad that my video has generated some good discussion about playing this amazing game at a higher level. I certainly want to be able to do that, but I keep getting stuck. I have run 50+ four times, several runs in the 40's and 30's and WAY too many 28's (missing 3rd rack break ball - mainly due to nerves). I would say that only a few of those runs felt somewhat easy (due to good pattern play). Most of them were a bit or a lot of work to get through. Watching Sigel or Rempe playing well (or any 14.1 experts) it rarely looks hard. Maybe in a 100 ball run they have 4 or 6 shots that are tough that have to be made to keep the run alive. Watching many of my video's back the racks often have one or more 'hard' shots.

I have done the brainwash drill before although not exclusively 2hrs a day, 2 weeks straight as Rempe suggests. So far my high run in that drill is 28 without hitting rail. Maybe I need to spend more time and try and get 100 in that drill and then return to 14.1?

Anyway, thanks again for all the comments and I will keep trying!

 

[sparkle84]

It could take quite a long time to get to 100 in the brainwash drill. Might be months before you play 14.1 again. And it's not really necessary. Try this. If time permits, during each session, before, during or after 14.1 practice, shoot 4 or 5 racks of brainwash. Start by placing all the balls 10+ inches off the rails. When you get to the point where you're getting 10+ balls the majority of the time start moving balls closer to rails. I'd also suggest (I'm assuming you're taping a lot of your sessions) cutting them a little short at times and spend the extra time studying the video and looking for ways you could have done things differently. You'll get there. Be happy to help if you have any questions at any point. just ask.