4th axis

[Newton]

I have been scouting for a long time for a 4th axis. Several options have been looked at and no conclusion have been drawn.
Here is a copy of a post I did in he CNCZone forum:

Have any one any experience with these solutions:

" The "mother" company of the Isel CNC machines:
http://www.iselautomation.de/product...lang=en&ID=c45
These are expensive stuff but the D2 solution could be payable.
This is however a belt driven unit so I'm currently trying to figure out if the moment of interia for this is good enough for my use.
In their PDF they have actually described the math and done a example of the D2..... Then it's just to decide ..

The miniature experts Sherline has a unit :

http://www.sherlinedirect.com/index....Product_ID=187
This is a proper gear unit. I'm not sure about how good this is.

K2 has a rotary unit but this looks like a Sherline clone, at least the chuck:
http://www.k2cnc.com/shop/proddetail.asp?prod=Indexor&cat=29

Then you have this solution, which is even more expensive than the Isel:
http://www.cnc-router-routers.com/ht...routing_e.html

You could of course buy a regular rotary table and fix a stepper you're self, but then I
need to do the math when it comes to the step/angle ratios to knock in to the DSP controller.
Here is one example
http://www.bernardo.at/sitex/index.p..._HV_4_set.html "

Any feedback about experiences would be appreciated.

N

 

[brianna187]

most everyone has a sherline its all you need anything else is a waste of money the whole thing ready to go is less then $500.00

 

[conetip]

We use Haas on CNC mill and also use it on a manual mill. They are great.You can run a rotation while moving in x, y, and z at the same time. That is how we get neat port shapes for our engines.
They are very precise and easy to setup. To use it manually you can use the add on control case for older style mills like series 1 Bridgeport's.I don't know the prices, but we have never had one wear out or fail. We have two at our work. 1 for cnc and the other with a control box for manual control.Hope this helps.
Neil

 

[rhncue]

I use a Sherline with it's own computer. I can set it to make 1 to 999 equal divisions or use angles or put it in slave mode and have it run off of my CNC programs through the CNC's computer.

Dick

 

[Newton]

I use a Sherline with it's own computer. I can set it to make 1 to 999 equal divisions or use angles or put it in slave mode and have it run off of my CNC programs through the CNC's computer.

Dick

Thanks Dick. If it's good enough for you it should be good enough for me as well
Would check up next week.

N

 

[Newton]

We use Haas on CNC mill and also use it on a manual mill. They are great.You can run a rotation while moving in x, y, and z at the same time. That is how we get neat port shapes for our engines.
They are very precise and easy to setup. To use it manually you can use the add on control case for older style mills like series 1 Bridgeport's.I don't know the prices, but we have never had one wear out or fail. We have two at our work. 1 for cnc and the other with a control box for manual control.Hope this helps.
Neil

Neil, would this be the boy's http://www.universalmachinery.com/femco/HaasRotary.html

Do you have any pricing on these ? Edit: Well, sorry..I forgot that you said you did not know the price. I think they are VERY expensive :
http://www.haascnc.com/lang/ROTARY/...bles.asp?intLanguageCode=1033#RotaryTreePrice

N

 

[cutter]

If you go with the sherline, make sure you get the backlash compensation set up right away. I found a lot of slop when you changed directions in the one I had long ago. I bought a daedal rotary table off of ebay and modified it to hold a chuck. No backlash.

 

[conetip]

haas

Neil, would this be the boy's http://www.universalmachinery.com/femco/HaasRotary.html

Do you have any pricing on these ? Edit: Well, sorry..I forgot that you said you did not know the price. I think they are VERY expensive :
http://www.haascnc.com/lang/ROTARY/...bles.asp?intLanguageCode=1033#RotaryTreePrice

N

Yes they are the ones. They do not have backlash in them. I know they are not cheap, but if you really are into precision, then they are the nuts.
Neil

 

[rhncue]

Yes they are the ones. They do not have backlash in them. I know they are not cheap, but if you really are into precision, then they are the nuts.
Neil

There is backlash in any type of moving equipment. if there is no play there can be no movement. I am sure that Haas equipment is much better built but I can imagine the price you would have to pay for the extra .0001 or .0002 in accuracy that you would attain. There is a very simple to use backlash adjustment on the Sherline but it is not really necessary to be very tight as you should know that on a rotary table the indexing should always go past it's point then brought back to eliminate any backlash problems. The stepper motor locks the rotary table in position once the movement has been made and the Sherline has 28,000 steps to a revolution. That comes down to .006 of a degree resolution. For great precision none of the equipment we use is worth having but for what we are using the equipment for, building wood cues, we are probably doing overkill already. Somewhere there is a place where the extra expense does not correspond with the extra accuracy attained. I've got one Sherline CNC rotary table and am thinking of getting another just to replace the mechanical indexer I have on the mill table for indexing prongs for half/splice cuts.

Dick

 

[Newton]

Is the Sherline strong enough to be cutting while rotating ? This is work I would be doing.

N

 

[RocketQ]

Buy the taig headstock and chuck get it running true mount a stepper directly to the headstock and you have 0 backlash. Driect drive right off the stepper. The strength will come from how big a stepper you put on it and how well the chuck holds.

 

[Newton]

Buy the taig headstock and chuck get it running true mount a stepper directly to the headstock and you have 0 backlash. Driect drive right off the stepper. The strength will come from how big a stepper you put on it and how well the chuck holds.

That's a great idea. Could actually just use one of these http://www.bernardo.at/sitex/index....7/Wood_working_Woodturning_lathes_DM_390.html
and mount one on the back....Cast iron, low vibration and so on.
But I guess it must be a beefy stepper even if the weight of a cue is far from heavy. But the milling might be hurting, i.e making threads and so on while rotating. For this the need of torque is high which I guess is the reason for gearing.

However making a simple cogwheel attachment, one on the stepper driver (small) and one on the lathe axis (large) should help.

Hmmm

N

 

[Newton]

Kicking life in this old thread.
I have STILL not managed to decide for one and I guess I'm to thorough as usual.
I have found some other suppliers but is there any one which have done something new in this topic?
Like RocketQ mentioned, add a beefy stepper directly to a headstock and go?

Currently checking up for a adaptor plate for a 145mm diameter hole distribution on a 4th axis I'm looking at, but this seems to be a No go...

Kent

 

[Mc2]

I also kicked around the idea of aTaig headstock and using a timing belt between spindle and stepper motor. You will want to avoid that. The belt will stretch alittle and will not hold position like you want. With the sherline it has a worm gear reducing down 1/72. In other words you will have to rotate the stepper motor 72 times for a full revalution. They are not speedy but the holding power is through the roof. If you are looking at cutting while rotating the a axis then sherline is the way to go. If you go with a sherline then get one already set up for cnc. If you convert one it will have some additional backlash in it. Sherline matches up the cnc coupler to improve this issue. Lee at Brianna is a sherline dealer, I am sure if you talk to him he will get you what you need.

Jim.

 

[Newton]

Thank's Jim.

I left the belt ida almost immediately but I was thinking on buying a really beefy stepper and add directly on the axis. The torque would of course be poor so that idea has also been left.

The Sherline has been checked "in each corner" but I have not found any holding torque readings for this. Also, the chuck looks fairly small...

I checked Lees web page the other day but no trace of a 4th axis setup there, but I guess I should send him a PM and ask

Kent

 

[Mc2]

Kent, give him a call. I know he is busy however that is your best bet. As far as the chuck goes, you will have to add that. You can use any 3/4-16 thread chuck. Both sherline and taig have the same thread size. I would use a 4 jaw indipendant myself as I can dial that into zero. I also have the re-indexing fixture that Lee sells so I can remove my work without needing to re-dial in the chuck. This would depend on your aplication however if you want a self centering chuck then they are not as accurate. If you want a self centering chuck then go with sherline as they are better than taig.

Jim.

 

[Newton]

Kent, give him a call. I know he is busy however that is your best bet. As far as the chuck goes, you will have to add that. You can use any 3/4-16 thread chuck. Both sherline and taig have the same thread size. I would use a 4 jaw indipendant myself as I can dial that into zero. I also have the re-indexing fixture that Lee sells so I can remove my work without needing to re-dial in the chuck. This would depend on your aplication however if you want a self centering chuck then they are not as accurate. If you want a self centering chuck then go with sherline as they are better than taig.

Jim.

Thank's Jim.

WRT the chuck, I thought these was screwed to the face plate of the Sherline table. Is this center threaded or do you ad a chuck adaptor plate to it as well ?
My wife would like to design 3D stuff which I hopefully could mill, so this is the need for "milling while turning" and backlash is a factor here.

Kent

 

[JoeyInCali]

Here's my turner.
Got the headstock, chuck, motor , tailstock and chuck from CH.
I bought 20MM by 30 inches long precise shaft so I could line the two ends .
The chuck had some runout. I zeroed it with a feeler gauge about 2 thou thick on one jaw.
I can't use it as an index. It's just a variable speed turner.

 

[Mc2]

Thank's Jim.

WRT the chuck, I thought these was screwed to the face plate of the Sherline table. Is this center threaded or do you ad a chuck adaptor plate to it as well ?
My wife would like to design 3D stuff which I hopefully could mill, so this is the need for "milling while turning" and backlash is a factor here.

Kent

Kent, the face of the rotary has a hole drilled and tapped into the center. The table should come with an adaptor that screws into this hole and is threaded on the other end for the sherline or taig chucks. The chuck would have to be ordered in addition to the table but adaptor should be included. I am as well interested in milling a wrap around inlay. This is my reason for purchasing bobcad 23. By the way Bobcad has of yet been un-able to tell me how I can do this. I will most likely have to cheat. As far as the backlash goes I am going with Dick on this one. 6 thousanths of a degree is nothing to worry about. This is why though I would make sure that the table was already setup with the cnc coupler as the manual table can have this added. When it is added it will have extra backlash. Can you tell me what controller you will be using with the table?



Jim.

 

[Newton]

Here's my turner.
Got the headstock, chuck, motor , tailstock and chuck from CH.
I bought 20MM by 30 inches long precise shaft so I could line the two ends .
The chuck had some runout. I zeroed it with a feeler gauge about 2 thou thick on one jaw.
I can't use it as an index. It's just a variable speed turner.

Ho ho, I did not know that CH made these setups...
Could it be knocked in a beefy stepper in there in stead without any backlash ?

Guess I have to drop CH a email then..

K