500,000 Breaks - A Half Million

[Paul Schofield]

Can you give us a few stats, such as break-and-run percentage and breaker-won-game percentage, for those pro-level players?

Five players from this year's US Open played in our Spring Event. It was a one day tournament. Each player broke about 35 times on standard Gold Crowns. Break & Run Percentages are listed below.Dechaine played the finest pool that has ever been played at Gold Crown Erie PA in the 36 years of our existance. It was during that stretch of consecutive tournament wins he had this past year. He put on a clinic! I have many more stats but I do not keep Break & Won The Game stats. That stat is influenced by an opponent that could be any level of player. I am not interested in it.

2014 Break & Run Percentages
Chris Bartram 17%
Dan Madden 21%
Joey Arbuckle 22%
Shawn Putnam 29%
Mike Dechaine 48%

2013 Break & Run Percentages
Joey Arbuckle 26%
Dennis Hatch 34%

If your rules had been used in a tournament like the just-completed U.S. Open, what's your guess as to what the B&R percentage would have been (compared to the 20% we witnessed on streamed matches)?

I don't want to guess. The cut break is a wild card so this years stats are useless in making calculations to get your answer. Pull the stats from a past tournament where a standard break is used. If a player makes a ball on the break 70% of the time and he runs 20% of his racks, figure that he would also run 20% of the 30% of the racks where he did not make a ball on the break. His Break & Run Percentage would rise from 20% to 26%.

Do you think your rules would have made the matches more or less interesting (to the players, to hard-core fans, to relatively unsophisticated fans, to people who are not yet fans, to prospective advertisers, etc.)?

I can assure that the "No Conflict Rules" improve an event. I don't want to sell the farm here. There are many direct and indirect benefits for players, fans, and tournament directors. Everyone who is interested is just going to have to find out for themselves what it all means. It is better that way.

Your rules would certainly solve some of the current problems with 9-ball (and 10-ball), and the rules seem to be working well in the events at your pool room. But are they truly suitable for the highest levels of the sport?

Absolutely they are! You can also add Eight-Ball. Can everyone not see that our current rules are NOT suitable for the highest levels of the sport (lucking and wiring balls)? Think about our sister sports (bowling & golf). Think about how often players make strikes, spares, birdies, or pars. When I do a comparable, I think our pros should be running more racks.

I hope this helps and gives you what you are looking for.

 

[AtLarge]

Five players from this year's US Open played in our Spring Event. It was a one day tournament. Each player broke about 35 times on standard Gold Crowns. Break & Run Percentages are listed below.Dechaine played the finest pool that has ever been played at Gold Crown Erie PA in the 36 years of our existance. It was during that stretch of consecutive tournament wins he had this past year. He put on a clinic! I have many more stats but I do not keep Break & Won The Game stats. That stat is influenced by an opponent that could be any level of player. I am not interested in it.

2014 Break & Run Percentages
Chris Bartram 17%
Dan Madden 21%
Joey Arbuckle 22%
Shawn Putnam 29%
Mike Dechaine 48%

2013 Break & Run Percentages
Joey Arbuckle 26%
Dennis Hatch 34%



I don't want to guess. The cut break is a wild card so this years stats are useless in making calculations to get your answer. Pull the stats from a past tournament where a standard break is used. If a player makes a ball on the break 70% of the time and he runs 20% of his racks, figure that he would also run 20% of the 30% of the racks where he did not make a ball on the break. His Break & Run Percentage would rise from 20% to 26%.



I can assure that the "No Conflict Rules" improve an event. I don't want to sell the farm here. There are many direct and indirect benefits for players, fans, and tournament directors. Everyone who is interested is just going to have to find out for themselves what it all means. It is better that way.



Absolutely they are! You can also add Eight-Ball. Can everyone not see that our current rules are NOT suitable for the highest levels of the sport (lucking and wiring balls)? Think about our sister sports (bowling & golf). Think about how often players make strikes, spares, birdies, or pars. When I do a comparable, I think our pros should be running more racks.

I hope this helps and gives you what you are looking for.

Thanks for your responses, Paul. Maybe we'll get some comments from others.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Five players from this year's US Open played in our Spring Event. It was a one day tournament. Each player broke about 35 times on standard Gold Crowns. Break & Run Percentages are listed below.Dechaine played the finest pool that has ever been played at Gold Crown Erie PA in the 36 years of our existance. It was during that stretch of consecutive tournament wins he had this past year. He put on a clinic! I have many more stats but I do not keep Break & Won The Game stats. That stat is influenced by an opponent that could be any level of player. I am not interested in it.

2014 Break & Run Percentages
Chris Bartram 17%
Dan Madden 21%
Joey Arbuckle 22%
Shawn Putnam 29%
Mike Dechaine 48%

2013 Break & Run Percentages
Joey Arbuckle 26%
Dennis Hatch 34%



I don't want to guess. The cut break is a wild card so this years stats are useless in making calculations to get your answer. Pull the stats from a past tournament where a standard break is used. If a player makes a ball on the break 70% of the time and he runs 20% of his racks, figure that he would also run 20% of the 30% of the racks where he did not make a ball on the break. His Break & Run Percentage would rise from 20% to 26%.



I can assure that the "No Conflict Rules" improve an event. I don't want to sell the farm here. There are many direct and indirect benefits for players, fans, and tournament directors. Everyone who is interested is just going to have to find out for themselves what it all means. It is better that way.



Absolutely they are! You can also add Eight-Ball. Can everyone not see that our current rules are NOT suitable for the highest levels of the sport (lucking and wiring balls)? Think about our sister sports (bowling & golf). Think about how often players make strikes, spares, birdies, or pars. When I do a comparable, I think our pros should be running more racks.

I hope this helps and gives you what you are looking for.

Of the top players that have played your rule set, any Europeans Or Asains or Filipinos ? Curious as to how they would see the rules as being an improvement.

 

[Jaden]

Are you kidding???

The rules are suitable for all players at all levels. The Break & Run percentages that I will provide are not as high as you would expect for top players. And I say this because the stats I will provide are on standard bucket (as you would call) Gold Crowns. For all the discussions about too many break & runs and the game being too easy, I have a much different view: The top pro bowler strikes about 60% of the time. The top pro golfer pars or birdies about 60% of the time. I think our pro players should run more racks to make our game viable. That would mean larger pockets and more accommodating rules. Larger pockets and some rule adjustments (the reward for a good safe is too big) would incentivize our players to take more chances with riskier shots, making pool more fun and exciting to play and watch.

I will try to find time to look up and post stats tomorrow.

Did you REALLY just claim that at the top level pool players don't play GOOD enough????

our top players bat a .950+ and you want to make it EASIER??? You're smoking crack comparing pool to other sports and saying it needs to be easier....

It needs to be tougher...

Pool on TV was the ONLY sport to edit out the mistakes and highlight PERFECT play. All other sports highlight the GREAT shots AND the FLUBS!!!!

People like to watch a train wreck, they WANNA see mistakes, I don't care what some of the die hard fans claim. They also wanna see stellar play.

But attempting to make it so that there are even FEWER mistakes would be a huge error IMO...

Jaden

 

[Paul Schofield]

Of the top players that have played your rule set, any Europeans Or Asains or Filipinos ? Curious as to how they would see the rules as being an improvement.

No Europeans Or Asains or Filipinos. Rules that speed up the matches and eliminate much of the animosity and distrust between players would be seen as a step in the right direction (IMO if my experience is repeated).

 

[Joe T]

Please keep Joe's League out of your ammunition pile where it doesn't belong.. The Ball in hand after the break was to speed up play and avoid early safety battles which would be the norm otherwise......

Chris

Sorry bro, speed wasn't nearly as big a factor as taking the rack and luck of late balls out of it but it was a lil part. Interaction was also a factor. I personally hate that the rack or luck of a late ball otb plays such a big part in our game today.
I'm okay with 9b, trained tables with 1 on the spot alternate breaks.
The skill of a 10 ball break also on a trained table, winner or alternate breaks
No conflict or 15B starting with BIH

 

[bdorman]

No Europeans Or Asains or Filipinos. Rules that speed up the matches and eliminate much of the animosity and distrust between players would be seen as a step in the right direction (IMO if my experience is repeated).

The Europeans, Asians and Filipinos would definitly like the rules...since they can't make a ball on the break to save their lives. They need the game to be easier.

 

[Paul Schofield]

I'm okay with 9b, trained tables with 1 on the spot alternate breaks.

I am too for the most part, as long as the ball on the break is removed from the picture. Got to get rid of the lucked and wired ball like you did for AR. My issue with trained tables has always been that it was an invitation to pattern rack. We certainly saw enough of that last week. Wth a template, it cannot be stopped. A preset pattern prescribed in a set of rules is not a solution. It just ruins the game.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Joe, I did a statistical study on the impact of pattern racking. My Break & Runs fell by more than half when the balls were defensively pattern racked as opposed to random racked balls. I have never done a study measuring the impact of offensively pattern racked balls as compared to randomly racked balls.

It is no wonder there is so much animosity between the players. When players are close in ability,the best racker wins.

 

[Paul Schofield]

What's disgusting Paul, is you calling two of the best players in the world cheaters just to further your agenda when you have no idea of what the rack's actually looked like.:frown:

Neil, I understand your frustration. You value and respect the rich traditions of our sport.That alone is deserving of high regard. Can you not see that our favorite short games have evolved? Can you not see that the science and strategies have changed and we cannot go back and that the rules need to evolve in tandem?

Trust me. There is nothing malicious or self serving in pointing out the deficiencies in the racking and breaking debacle at the US Open. It needs to be done for the good of our sport.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Neil, I understand your frustration. You value and respect the rich traditions of our sport.That alone is deserving of high regard. Can you not see that our favorite short games have evolved? Can you not see that the science and strategies have changed and we cannot go back and that the rules need to evolve in tandem?

Trust me. There is nothing malicious or self serving in pointing out the deficiencies in the racking and breaking debacle at the US Open. It needs to be done for the good of our sport.

There are STILL some people that don't believe in evolution. :wink: