6-ball as a viable LOCAL tournament???

dirtypool40

dirtypool40

I love this freakin' game
Silver Member
What if local 9-ball tourneys played longer races of 6-ball??


Guys, just an idea.

I am a lowly "B" player, but I am sick of these local $10 tournaments where we're playing 9-ball races to three or at the most four, on sloppy eight footers. Even as a "B" I am one of the "heavies" in this small pond, and I'd just like to play more pool for my $10.

Is there any value if playing longer races of 6-ball? I haven't played much 6-ball and figured I would ask the global experts (internet folks).

I think I remember balls didn't go on the break like a 9-ball rack, so that would probably preclude lots "packages", but at the same time, there shouldn't be many clusters and it should make for easier patterns and shorter games.

Shooters with a slower break should still be able to spread the lighter rack more evenly, again, fewer clusters.

If we play from a "break box", hitting that shape rack, will it play like "mini 10-ball", meaning nothing HAS TO go, or is this game a joke even for local league 3-6 handicaps??

What would be a decent race, equivalent to racing to four or five in 9-ball? I am guessing you could race to seven in about the same time.

What do you think?
 
I would love to have 6-ball tournaments to go to around here with long races. I do think you might have to limit them to "B" players though. While to make a ball on the break is as hard if not harder than 10-ball, if a "B" player makes one on the break he's almost always out. Johnnyt
 
$10 really isn't that much for a tournament.

6 ball is a whole different break and some ppl are really good at it while some are very poor and spotting them the break is actually a helpful spot to you.

We have one guy around town in specific and 6 ball is all he plays, his break is sick. When he breaks I believe he uses some left or right english as opposed to center ball and just crushes the balls. I used to get the break from him and it was a hindrance to me not making a ball on the break he was out almost every time.
 
Johnnyt said:
I would love to have 6-ball tournaments to go to around here with long races. I do think you might have to limit them to "B" players though. While to make a ball on the break is as hard if not harder than 10-ball, if a "B" player makes one on the break he's almost always out. Johnnyt
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Yeah, at the "local $10 level" there's about a six to eight "B" players like me who the local tournament / league players THINK are heavies, but in a 16 man field, there's only 2-3 of us, the rest are APA 3-6 level, and not really a threat to get out.

If I get a good shot at the 1 in a 6-ball rack, I like my odds from there, but again, I'll be giving up either games on the wire, or lately the freakin' last four to the field.... cuz that's lots of fun. :banghead:



Yes, our local TD doesn't really have the whole handicap concept understood, but that's not the point of this thread.
 
u12armresl said:
$10 really isn't that much for a tournament.

6 ball is a whole different break and some ppl are really good at it while some are very poor and spotting them the break is actually a helpful spot to you.

We have one guy around town in specific and 6 ball is all he plays, his break is sick. When he breaks I believe he uses some left or right english as opposed to center ball and just crushes the balls. I used to get the break from him and it was a hindrance to me not making a ball on the break he was out almost every time.
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Which ball(s) is he making consistently?
 
What about the idea of a 6-pocket tournament, where players are drawn into groups of 4 players. They each play their 10 racks on the same table, and the top 2 advance, where the bottom 2 go to the losers bracket. You run this like a normal tournament, double elimination. You can have a redraw at every level if you wish. 2 players win the hot seat, and 2 players come over from the losers side. Finals is a longer set of racks, maybe 1.5 times as many.

ie. 40 players show up, draw it into 10 groups of 4 players. After the first round 20 players will move on in the winners, 20 will go to the losers side. Redraw into 5 groups each. If odd numbers, break down into groups of 3 if need be. There is a the chance of 2 people getting a bye in a later round, oh well.
 
dirtypool40 said:
Yeah, at the "local $10 level" there's about a six to eight "B" players like me who the local tournament / league players THINK are heavies, but in a 16 man field, there's only 2-3 of us, the rest are APA 3-6 level, and not really a threat to get out.

If I get a good shot at the 1 in a 6-ball rack, I like my odds from there, but again, I'll be giving up either games on the wire, or lately the freakin' last four to the field.... cuz that's lots of fun. :banghead:



Yes, our local TD doesn't really have the whole handicap concept understood, but that's not the point of this thread.
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you're not playing the right APA 5s...you know the one's I mean, you see them running racks on a 9 footer pre-league, and then somehow can't make many shots in their match (while, surprisingly, not leaving you with much either, hmmmm). lol.

I don't mind local tourneys with short races - just makes you REALLY focus when/if you get to the table....levels the field (kinda), but the better player is still the better player. Handicapped tourneys are rarely handicapped well, so, just avoid those....
 
trustyrusty said:
you're not playing the right APA 5s...you know the one's I mean, you see them running racks on a 9 footer pre-league, and then somehow can't make many shots in their match (while, surprisingly, not leaving you with much either, hmmmm). lol. ....
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LOL, yeah there are those. :rolleyes:

In the case of the local tournament, there are a few, but as noted our local TD is probably a low 4 and doesn't know enough about what he's seeing to even TRY to get the ratings right. :banghead:

He's "adjusted things" so now I am ONLY giving up the last 3 to a guy who spots me in league. NICE!


trustyrusty said:
I don't mind local tourneys with short races - just makes you REALLY focus when/if you get to the table....levels the field (kinda), but the better player is still the better player. Handicapped tourneys are rarely handicapped well, so, just avoid those....
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True, but these are handicapped AND short races, the worst of both worlds. There was an "open" tournament on Fridays, but no one would get in. I LOVED shooting $10 at the local short stops, and HAVING to play great to even win one round. Seriously, I liked getting a chance to test myself that cheaply.

Most folks ego won't let them play heads up, they simply don't wanna know. And their lack of heart won't let them even get in unless they think they're a lock to cash. (Kinda like most folks and "gambling".)

I'm talking about just making a better, longer, local tourney.
 
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6 Ball

Six ball is too easy for tournaments. The thing with 9 ball tournaments racing to 3 or 4 is that the tournament can be completed at a decent hour:
gives lessor players a shot at winning which draws more entries.

Short rack 8 ball is also too easy. (4 solids, 4 stripes, and 8 ball racked in a 9 ball format).
 
dirtypool40 said:
What if local 9-ball tourneys played longer races of 6-ball??
... What do you think?
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I think that if there is almost never a run-out for the level of players you have in your tournament, you may as well move to six ball. I remember when I was just learning to play -- most of us realized that we just weren't good enough to play nine ball. We were happy with six ball where we actually had a chance to break and run if one of the corner balls was going. Moving on to nine ball was considered a sort of graduation.
 
Thanks Bob! My feeling exactly.

This would be played on tough 9' 4.5-4.75" pocketed GC3's and 4's, simonis 860. Great room, non-smoking, good spacing, but no tournements to speak of.

As a test I practiced 6-ball a while by myself last night, I broke from both side rails and points along the center for about 30 racks. I would guess I only made balls about one out of 5-6 times. It was then either the one in the side, which is hard to prevent if someone really wants to work that break) or one of the two corner balls crossing four rails and back to the corners.

I don't see players of this level (APA 3-7, and a few 8's & 9's) stringing big "packages" on this equipment with that shape rack.

I think "once the shootin' starts" meaning someone gets a decent shot, the games will go quickly, allowing us to have longer races on both sides of the board, but I would be surprised to see lots of B&R's at this level.
 
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Snapshot9 said:
Six ball is too easy for tournaments. The thing with 9 ball tournaments racing to 3 or 4 is that the tournament can be completed at a decent hour:
gives lessor players a shot at winning which draws more entries.

Short rack 8 ball is also too easy. (4 solids, 4 stripes, and 8 ball racked in a 9 ball format).
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I agree on the short rack 8-ball, we tried that years ago on eight footers in another room and had APA 5 level guys stringing racks!! Again, I think it's the shape of the rack (the diamond with corners pointing into the pockets) that's flawed there too.

As to the "decent hour" I don't know what's happened to local tournaments, but around here at least, they need to get their act together. Most don't actually call a match to 8pm or later on week nights, and then thrown the "end at a decent hour" as a reason I only get to race to three.

I asked why they don't start earlier and they said players can't get there before 8. That's BS. If you want to get to a tournament once a week by 6pm you could. 7pm, you could drive from and hour away if it was worth playing, and STILL have plenty of time to warm up.

I have been "out in two" a couple times and still been there till 10pm WAITING ON MY SECOND MATCH!!! :scratchhead: Now THAT is nuts. Sitting in a smokey poolroom, listening to death metal, waiting for that next race to 3.

"Back in the day" we ran basically off the APA chart, meaning you raced to your handicap, on eight footers, and we shortened the race here and there. A 7 and a 5 raced 5-3 IIRC. We usually had to turn folks away with a full 32 man field. We STARTED, as in broke racks, at 7pm sharp, and never went past midnight.

On the weekends if we ran a tournament the room opened at 11 and we started 12 sharp.

I am hoping to bring this back if I start a local tournament series here.

Shooters will learn how to play proper rules, behave, and be on time. If you wanna play and are running late, call ahead, don't just show up, there will be no "2nd round buy ins".

If you're planning on playing a Sunday afternoon tournament, partying all night is still your option.

The tournament will be handicapped as fairly as possible, meaning I will keep track of not only individual handicaps, but which group of players they favor and continue to adjust it until it's a coin flip and who has a better day or gets a couple rolls. No one will have a lock if I can help it.

We WILL get to race to a decent number.

We will spread the prize money back to at least the top 25% instead of a $100 1st and 2nd gets a hearty handshake.

Tournaments you play for the competition, not because you might snap it off a couple times before I get you properly rated.

Anyway... thanks for the feedback guys, keep it coming. :thumbup:
 
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In the 60's and 70's 6 ball was the game on bar tables. If you knew the two breaks to use you had the advantage, if not you were out matched. Easy game to give the breaks to your opponet and rob him.
 
I think that would be a fun tournament. I have always been against handicapped tourneys so 6 ball would be a great addition.
 
I've practiced 6-ball on this equipment a couple times, and we AVERAGED about 3 minutes a game. Even at a 7-6 final score, that's a 40 minute race.

If you start at a decent hour (7pm SHARP!) that's very doable.

Currently they run a 10-ball race to 4W/3L tournament and we have matches go OVER AN HOUR!!! :rolleyes: 10-ball on tight nine footers, is just NOT an appropriate game for this skill level of player on week nights, and too heavily favors the better players.

We have a well know "lady pro" who held up the board all night with not one but two matches over an hour long. Dabbing balls, creating ever larger clusters, jarring balls. 6-ball would elimintate a lot of this.

What I am surprised about is the reaction of the local players. I know we're all stone cold, world beaters, but they act like I've suggested bar box 3 ball.

Based on what I saw in practice, I gotta believe it's ignorance, and just assuming 6-ball is a joke game.
 
I think its a great idea. It is a lot more fun for someone to be able to have a legitimate chance at running out and feeling good about their game. It gives them more confidence and more motivitation to practice. I consider myself a "C" player, and will often practice 7 ball because I get out so much more often than in 9 ball. I do think that 6 ball may be a bit too easy to get out once you get a ball on the break. Most people can make 5 balls in a row at least 30% of the time, and a decent player should do it better than 50%. I think adding a ball and playing 7 ball may make the run outs a little harder, but still viable. I am not sure about the difference in break difficulty though. Whenever I watch 7 ball on tv, they seem to make balls on the break often.
 
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