8-Ball - Can't runout, but shoot in balls anyway

[Flex]

The strategy to wait for the other guy to bury themself is pretty effective at the intermediate level, but top level players will often enough manage to break open the cluster or perhaps bank the 8 over a pocket, leaving a tough out or a tough safe for you.

So don't knock the guy who goes for the tricky out too much, as the top players will take on many of these tricky outs. If you're not trying to make them, then your progress to the higher levels will be difficult.

Don't just play to win, play as if you're trying to beat a pro, and then you'll develop your skill sets for the higher levels of play.

Not knocking you BB. The fact that you are confident to play from 4 or so balls behind shows that you have pretty good skills, but to move to the higher levels, you'll have to increase your odds of going out when the table is congested with the opponent's balls and clusters need to be broken up and difficult position needs to be attempted to get on challenging balls.

I used to play the way you are experimenting with, but eventually ran into players that consistantly went out when I was confident they wouldn't. To beat them, I had to keep them off the table, or tied up real good.

Basically, you've got to shift your percentages of clearing the table on your first open shot after a successful break, or after your opponent's dry break to around 50%. Even upward of 70% on fast big pocket tables at top levels.

If your opponent is in the 20-30% range, then it's probably a good strategy to sit back and wait a bit...develop your problem balls, tie his up etc. But the goal is to get yourself toward the 50% range, so that most of the time you come to the table you're trying to go out. And when you get to that level, playing the kind of players you're playing now will be a fun exercise. You won't mind messing up half your outs to give them a shot, cause you'll likely get a lot more chances and wipe them pretty easily.

Excellent advice, Colin.

I used to play the way you mentioned you played against some pretty good players, and developed a medium break in 8 ball that would leave lots of clusters, hoping to tie them up, or at least get a chance at the table if nothing potted on the break. There's one fellow now who when I do that to him makes a special effort to run out the table, and he usually does, breaking out balls and clusters along the way. It's inspiring to watch, but no fun to lose. So against this guy I now break big and hope something drops, and go for a runout if possible. BTW, this fellow told me he once broke and ran 5 racks of 8 ball in a row on one particular 9 foot tight pocketed table. Knowing that sort of thing can rearrange your thinking...

Thanks again, Colin, for the great advice.

Flex

 

[Panhdlce]

early on hitting a ball to tie up the eight ball isn't my style of play....... when I watch someone do that it always runs through my mind that they are not confident in their talent or they are tring to get something in the bag to prevent a talented player from running out, it's like blocking a pass in auto racing........ hitting a "saftey" isn't my style either, either you can or you can't

 

[Colin Colenso]

I like it when Colin says... "you've got to shift your percentages of clearing the table on your first open shot after a successful break, or after your opponent's dry break to around 50%."

He is telling me what is possible, setting high goals for me, and telling me I can do it.

I like being around other players like this - players with a "can do" positive attitude. It rubs off on me, I set higher goals for myself, and my game improves.

I am being told that this is what is expected of myself. (Thanks Colin!)

It is the case of the "train that could"... I think I can, I know I can, etc.

And this has changed my thinking. I'm now thinking "runout" from the get go. Where are the balls which will not go? How can I break those balls out? I can't runout until I deal with those problem balls, etc. (In the past it was what balls can I make now, I'll leave the problems until later.)

Also I recently played a very good player who can shoot and *make* most of his kick shots. He told me I need to work on my kick shots. (Meaning I need to get to where I can shoot kick shots and *make* my balls.)

In the past I was told all I needed to do was hit my ball to keep my opponent from getting ball-in-hand. And this is the level I reached. This is what the other players expected of me.

Now I'm playing better players and they are telling me I need to do better than this. So I will readjust my goals/expectations.

Jimmy Reid was right on when he called one of his videos "No Time for Negative"...

BB,
I like your attitude and I believe you will climb to much higher levels if you continue to put in the work and think about the game.

Among the pool circles I grew up playing in, if a player was to state their ambition to play at state or national, daresay international level the responses from fellow players was mostly mockery or occassionally a muffled form of encouragement. Most players are intimidated by the idea that someone they see as a lesser or equal player could outshine them.

But when I hear someone with ambition state their interest in getting better, I always encourage them...but I tell them the work they need to do. Most do not do the work required, but a couple of the guys who I encouraged were serious enough to take on the work, and by doing so, they progressed and that gave them the confidence to continue along the track. Eventually they had top level results in national level tournaments. Results as good as anyone in the city had ever achieved. Something their local contemporeries could not have imagined was possible.

So the fact is there is a track to success for one who is willing to do the work. And with the amount of information available to an internet saavy student these days, the potential to develop rapidly is greater than ever.

So good luck to you BB and others with high ambitions. Work hard and smart on developing your skill and strategic knowledge.

Colin

 

[rackmsuckr]

In our league it is based on points/round and not wins. So if you win you get 10, and then the other person gets the number of balls that are down. On many occasions, it is better for our player to get 5-6 instead of trying to win 10-6 isn't that bad a loss. 10-1 however adds up very quickly and sometimes you can't catch the other team because of it.

And that is the one inherent problem I see in BCA leagues that prohibits a player's growth. Just pocketing balls to increase a score, rather than teaching these players the right way to play is a disservice, IMO. They need to learn to go for the breakouts early in their runout instead of leaving them for last.

BB - I hope to see you at a regional tournament. I love seeing enthusiasm and desire over the game and setting goals for yourself. Good luck with your endeavor and let me know if I can help in any way.

Linda

 

[chefjeff]

And that is the one inherent problem I see in BCA leagues that prohibits a player's growth. Just pocketing balls to increase a score, rather than teaching these players the right way to play is a disservice, IMO. They need to learn to go for the breakouts early in their runout instead of leaving them for last.

BB - I hope to see you at a regional tournament. I love seeing enthusiasm and desire over the game and setting goals for yourself. Good luck with your endeavor and let me know if I can help in any way.

Linda

I'd like to add a little bit more to this...

League players have more ups and downs in their games than do pros. So, when in that inevitable down phase, potting balls is the one thing a player can do to help his/her team. Especially if the balls are laying poorly. That choice is a higher percentage for the team than attempting a runout (when not in stroke).

When my neice was little, she'd watch me play and would say something like, "You're ahead of your opponent because you've made 5 balls and he has only made 2." I'd say, Are you sure?--what is the object of the game? She finally figured it out.

There's nothing worse than getting your 8-ball game to a level of averaging 7 ball runouts. Frustrating as hell. You work and work to improve potting and position and you get better and better, and then suddenly you start losing MORE when you frequently end up in one ball Hell! Damn 8-ball. Going past that is the key to getting to that next level, so to speak, as you obviously know.

March on,

Jeff Livingston

 

[Cameron Smith]

There's nothing worse than getting your 8-ball game to a level of averaging 7 ball runouts. Frustrating as hell. You work and work to improve potting and position and you get better and better, and then suddenly you start losing MORE when you frequently end up in one ball Hell! Damn 8-ball. Going past that is the key to getting to that next level, so to speak, as you obviously know.

March on,

Jeff Livingston

It's interesting that you mention that. I consider this to be kind of like the awkward adolecsent stage of learning pool. It's darn frusterating but I think if you can get to this stage you are likely to push through and become a very good player.