8 Ball on the Break rule

pocket

pocket

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WPA, BCA treat it almost like a scratch.

I assume this is because pro players are so proficient at sinking it that it takes away from the competitiveness.

However for us earthlings, this is a pretty rare occurrence deserving of the insta-win, or am I way off base here?

How do most folks play this (outside tournament or APA league)?
 
I play that it gets spotted. In my mind its a matter a chance and the game is supposed to be about skill, you dont actually beat me unless you knock the 8 ball down in the pocket you call IMO
 
pocket said:
WPA, BCA treat it almost like a scratch.
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Not true. If you make the eight on the break, you don't lose your turn. You either re-rack and get to break again, or you play the table as it lies after spotting the 8 - far from treating it like a scratch.

pocket said:
I assume this is because pro players are so proficient at sinking it that it takes away from the competitiveness.
Click to expand...

No, that's not why. No one is so proficient at making the 8 on the break that it needed a rule change. The reason for the rule is that it removes the aspect of winning the game through an occurrence that is basically random luck (granted that a knowledgeable person can increase their chances of making the 8 on the break, but it's still mostly luck).

pocket said:
However for us earthlings, this is a pretty rare occurrence deserving of the insta-win, or am I way off base here?
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There is some luck in pool, but I think the prevalent thinking is to remove as much luck as is reasonably possible. No matter how rare the occurrence, an insta-win based on luck is what they are trying to avoid.

I assume this is the same reason that you don't automatically win if your opponent scratches on the 8 (without pocketing the eight). The idea is that a player should earn the win.

pocket said:
How do most folks play this (outside tournament or APA league)?
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Seems to me that most people on this forum play it like BCA. However, there are a lot of APA people on this forum too, and APA rules are a completely different kettle of fish.

Most people who play in bars - people who grab a stick off the wall - play that making the eight on the break is a win.

Fatz
 
Yes your off base.. It's a lucky shot. I don't want to win or lose by luck. It has nothing to do with how easy it is for the pro's. I haven't noticed the pro's dropping a lot of 8 ball's on the break.
And it's not treated as a scratch. You don't lose your turn. It just gets spotted and the breaker stays at the table.

pocket said:
WPA, BCA treat it almost like a scratch.

I assume this is because pro players are so proficient at sinking it that it takes away from the competitiveness.

However for us earthlings, this is a pretty rare occurrence deserving of the insta-win, or am I way off base here?

How do most folks play this (outside tournament or APA league)?
Click to expand...
 
Pre-Flag Master said:
Not true. If you make the eight on the break, you don't lose your turn. You either re-rack and get to break again, or you play the table as it lies after spotting the 8 - far from treating it like a scratch.



No, that's not why. No one is so proficient at making the 8 on the break that it needed a rule change. The reason for the rule is that it removes the aspect of winning the game through an occurrence that is basically random luck (granted that a knowledgeable person can increase their chances of making the 8 on the break, but it's still mostly luck).



There is some luck in pool, but I think the prevalent thinking is to remove as much luck as is reasonably possible. No matter how rare the occurrence, an insta-win based on luck is what they are trying to avoid.

I assume this is the same reason that you don't automatically win if your opponent scratches on the 8 (without pocketing the eight). The idea is that a player should earn the win.



Seems to me that most people on this forum play it like BCA. However, there are a lot of APA people on this forum too, and APA rules are a completely different kettle of fish.

Most people who play in bars - people who grab a stick off the wall - play that making the eight on the break is a win.

Fatz
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This.
.....
 
Once, after making an 8 on the break, I had a bar banger insist that I lost the game because I made the 8 out of turn.
 
8 on break

Pre-Flag Master said:
Not true. If you make the eight on the break, you don't lose your turn. You either re-rack and get to break again, or you play the table as it lies after spotting the 8 - far from treating it like a scratch.



No, that's not why. No one is so proficient at making the 8 on the break that it needed a rule change. The reason for the rule is that it removes the aspect of winning the game through an occurrence that is basically random luck (granted that a knowledgeable person can increase their chances of making the 8 on the break, but it's still mostly luck).



There is some luck in pool, but I think the prevalent thinking is to remove as much luck as is reasonably possible. No matter how rare the occurrence, an insta-win based on luck is what they are trying to avoid.

I assume this is the same reason that you don't automatically win if your opponent scratches on the 8 (without pocketing the eight). The idea is that a player should earn the win.



Seems to me that most people on this forum play it like BCA. However, there are a lot of APA people on this forum too, and APA rules are a completely different kettle of fish.

Most people who play in bars - people who grab a stick off the wall - play that making the eight on the break is a win.

Fatz
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You covered the questions very well.

I agree with you, I don't like the 8 on the break being a win or a loss.

APA rules, as you say, are "different"...they play slop 8-ball, except wait...you have to not only call the 8, you must "mark" your pocket. So it's "call" the 8, except wait...you don't have to call it on the break, it's slop then...
 
Depends on what area you are in. If you are in an area of mostly BCA players, then they use the WPA rules. In an area of APA players, they will want to use APA rules. BCA/WPA 8-ball rules should be standard for all leagues, but the APA and other leagues cater to "new players". Slopping in ball after ball and then getting lucky making the 8 on the break and getting rewarded with a win is stupid.

That being said, I have only played in 1.5 sessions of APA 8-ball and already have a million 8 on the break patches lol,
 
victorl said:
Once, after making an 8 on the break, I had a bar banger insist that I lost the game because I made the 8 out of turn.
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NOW, that is a new one !! Bar bangers, God love'em... cause nobody else possibly can :)
 
My Dream....

:smile:


It is my dream to make five eight balls in a row on the break in TAP League.

It would be a scoresheet that no one has ever seen before.


People can call it luck all they want, but if you notice...it's always the same people that make the most eight on the breaks after every session. This happens because they know how.

Oh...it is a skill shot just like making the nine on the break.


I love making the eight on the break when the score is hill...hill.
 
I think the BCA rules should be used for all 8 ball breaks. Unless you are at a bar playing on a coin operated table.
 
Upa

In the UPA, 8 on the break is a win. If you scratch while making the 8 on the break though, it's a loss.

I definitely would say that there's a very reliable way to move the 8 to a side pocket.

If the pros are confined to breaking from the box, I think it would be way luckier to make the 8 on the break.

I can see the argument for spotting it though, since the table is still open on the break, and the 8 should be sunk to win only after your suit is done.
 
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I always kinda guessed the 8 on the break win thing was intended for Bar Bangers on coin op tables.for the obvious reason of not being able to spot the 8. I have a friend that plays on a league where it counts as a win, his big thing is watching where the 8 goes on the break. If the 8 didn't drop or settle in the jaws of a pocket its not a "good" break, never once taking into consideration how easy the layout might be to break and run.
 
pocket said:
WPA, BCA treat it almost like a scratch.

I assume this is because pro players are so proficient at sinking it that it takes away from the competitiveness.

However for us earthlings, this is a pretty rare occurrence deserving of the insta-win, or am I way off base here?

How do most folks play this (outside tournament or APA league)?
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pro players are so proficient at sinking the 8 ball................. I have never seen it in a match.....................

Kim
 
Pros don't sink the 8 on the break with any regularity BECAUSE THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE TO IT any longer. That's my point.

I said ALMOST like a scratch, in that they can re rack or spot the ball (but continue their shot).

You guys enjoy a good game of 9 ball don't you? I don't hear anyone complaining about 9 on break in 9 ball being an insta-win.

Thanks for the responses.
 
Regarding 8 on the break....

A few weeks back at my BCA league, I was playing pretty much the weakest play in our league... no threat to run out.

I get up and break and make the 8 in the side. Look at the table and it is a mes and near impossible to run. So I re-rack and break.

Once again, I make the 8 on the break... head ball breaking, btw.

And once again I don't think it is a runable table, so I re-rack and break once more. This time it is a good break with a fairly good spread.

I run down about 4 balls and have to abort the run... played a great safe. They miss and I run out for a 17-0.

Wouldn't have tried re-racking against the top players as I'd likely break dry and get run-out!
 
Lucky Pool Player....

ChicagoJoe said:
9 ball is a slop game.
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:ok:


Nothing wrong with slop or being lucky to win a pool game.

The biggest thrill in pool is when a lousy player beats a great player.

Or, when a lousy player lucks in a ball to win.


This is why amateur handicap leagues are so popular.

Don't always have to be good to win.


This is also why slot machines are so popular. Every one knows the odds are against them...but there is that one chance they can win big.
 
It is pretty rare, though a few claim they saw some top pro use his secret 2nd row break of doom
and knock it into the side several times in a row.

Nonetheless, around here, whether it's friendly play or gambling, nobody treats it as an instant win,
unless stipulated at the start. And if you play with the instant-win rule you also have to have the
instant-loss rule if they make it and scratch. For the most part it's looked at as a 'bar rule'
although it's also used in some leagues like the APA.

I think if you plan on playing with anyone and care about it, you should just ask them beforehand
how they want to play it.
 
pocket said:
Pros don't sink the 8 on the break with any regularity BECAUSE THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE TO IT any longer. That's my point.

I said ALMOST like a scratch, in that they can re rack or spot the ball (but continue their shot).

You guys enjoy a good game of 9 ball don't you? I don't hear anyone complaining about 9 on break in 9 ball being an insta-win.

Thanks for the responses.
Click to expand...

don't confuse 9 ball with texas express rules. 9 on the break wasn't always a win and it was a call shot game. I play in tournaments where the 9 on the break doesn't count at all or only counts when it's dropped in the bottom two pockets.
 
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