I'm just curious on what you all believe: how much of a percentage advantage is there to having the table open if a ball is made on an 8-ball rack compared to having to 'take what you make'? 10% better chance of running out or a 50% better chance of running out? I'm thinking the odds are closer to 33%. I've played both BCA and APA rules. Running out is much easier when open if you make a ball. (This is a math question...NOT a rules preference question.) Thanks all. What do you think?
8-Ball - Open... After the Break... % Thoughts
- Thread starter BarTableMan
- Start date
Your question makes me think of Yogi saying, "half the game is 80% mental."
Perhaps the statistics people can put a number to it. I just know that it's huge, not just in run out games. Having the choice and making the right one is the 80% mental half
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Perhaps the statistics people can put a number to it. I just know that it's huge, not just in run out games. Having the choice and making the right one is the 80% mental half
.If you are at the point you can run entire racks:: then open after the break is an advantage--but not by much--as you will often wan the group- you made on the break.
My experience tells me a good guess would be 50% or higher. I mean, being forced to take what you make can be very limiting at times, and it can put you at a disadvantage immediately. Having a choice gives you control, and control wins more games.
I'm not so worried about the rule set as i am about the layout , sure take what you make can be an automatic screw but it just depends on how they sit
That's just me though.
I say that but truth be told in the last few yrs I have double or more bnrs in bca compared to apa, but I stand by my statement
That's just me though.
I say that but truth be told in the last few yrs I have double or more bnrs in bca compared to apa, but I stand by my statement
I think it's a pretty big advantage. One group is going to be the better group. So if you "take what you make" then you are about 50% to be able to shoot the better group. If you can shoot either group, then you can 100% of the time shoot the better group.
And I think it might actually be less than 50% for take what you make. When I played 8ball BCA league it was always open table and I felt like at least 75% of the time I'd take the side I did not make because it appeared to be the easier side to run out. I always attributed that to the fact that the group I made had fewer balls and therefore fewer obstructions for me, as well as with more balls on the table the side I did not make was more likely to have a friendly opening shot.
As for actual percentages, I wouldn't be surprised if the bnr frequency goes up by half or more with open table.
I am strongly in favor of open table after the break.
And I think it might actually be less than 50% for take what you make. When I played 8ball BCA league it was always open table and I felt like at least 75% of the time I'd take the side I did not make because it appeared to be the easier side to run out. I always attributed that to the fact that the group I made had fewer balls and therefore fewer obstructions for me, as well as with more balls on the table the side I did not make was more likely to have a friendly opening shot.
As for actual percentages, I wouldn't be surprised if the bnr frequency goes up by half or more with open table.
I am strongly in favor of open table after the break.
PracticeChampion
Well-known member
I got one tournament I play that is take what you make and I'm going to guess about 1/3 of the time there's either no shot or only a lowish percentage shot at my ball. Making one of each is like hitting the lottery
Depends on what skill level a player. Huge advantage to have your option for any level of player, but less of an advantage for pro level, as they are good enough to solve problems and run out anyway.
For lesser skilled players, being forced to take what you make may result in not even being able to pocket your next ball, as you’ll only have 5 or a max 6 balls to choose from for your first shot, as opposed to 12 or 13 balls to choose from if the table is still open.
For who? Skill would make a difference.
Haven't tested it but if I b& r 30% of the time open, it would be 10%(?) With take what you make.
Haven't tested it but if I b& r 30% of the time open, it would be 10%(?) With take what you make.
For middle to higher level players - FR 500-650 ish - I think it changes the break from a slight advantage to a slight disadvantage. Especially if it’s not rack your own.
I have never tried to put numbers to it but maybe open is a 55% advantage and take is a 55% disadvantage. Most < 600 FR players will make multiple mistakes (average) every rack and/or not make a ball on the break quite a bit.
I have never tried to put numbers to it but maybe open is a 55% advantage and take is a 55% disadvantage. Most < 600 FR players will make multiple mistakes (average) every rack and/or not make a ball on the break quite a bit.